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Question about Group Dividers where roles are taken not from the credits
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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If roles are taken from another source other than the credits and these cast members are grouped together can we use the Group Dividers for these?


For example let's say we have the following.

The actual credit just lists the cast members names.

Jessica Smith
Linda Florence

The profile got the roles from a source other than the credits and has the following.

Jessica Smith as Nurse
Linda Florence as Nurse

Is it OK to add a Group Divider for these so it looks like this?
Nurses
Jessica Smith
Linda Florence
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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While I'd have no objection to either way, I think it would depend on how "official" the other source was before I'd do it myself.
If the film's official web page, for example had:

Jessica Smith as Nurse
Linda Florence as Nurse

I would follow that, and not convert it to a group divider. But neither way is wrong.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I would not create dividers that were not in the credits.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I would not create dividers that were not in the credits.

agree
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I would not create dividers that were not in the credits.

Me neither.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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The reason I asked is because this section in the rules could allow it.


Quote:
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.



The whenever possible part seems to allow for cases where groupings without roles credited could use the Group Dividers.


But it seems the answer is no, so far.

Personally I don't care one way or the other. Just thought I'd ask.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
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No need to imagine dividers or make up where they should go, esp. when many movie credits will have indentical roles follow each other without a group divider themselves.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTomGaines
Registered Sept. 24, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I had a similar instance yesterday. The stage version of "Jesus Christ Superstar" has the principal actors without role names and the apostles were all listed with the role name "Apostle" in the profile. I chose not to use a group divider for these.


DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I would not create dividers that were not in the credits.

Nor would I.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDraxen
I see shiny discs...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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My initial thought was that why not? But having read others' responses here I'm not so sure anymore. I may have misunderstood the use of the dividers all along. I checked the rules, but they don't really define what is acceptable use. A couple of days ago I contributed profile for the US release "Venus Beauty Institute" (720917-527925), where I used the Group dividers like this example (rolenames left, castnames right):

...
Madame Buisse ---------- Claire Debout
L'amant de la gare ------ Gilbert Melki
Les hommes du self ----- Patrick Pineau
                                    Philippe Harel
Eliane -------------------- Chantal Bronner
...
etc...

I used group divider for "Les hommes du self", because I thought that is (also) an acceptable use for them - and because I'm not certain how those roles would be in singular form. And for even more "exotic" languages for me, the transform from plural to singular would have been even more difficult, or impossible.

So, if we allow group divider use like above, I think it would be logical to group role names (taken from elsewhere than movie's credits because actual credits don't have them) with group dividers, too. Right? We already are "inventing" role names, so why not group them the way we would if they were written on screen?

However, if we don't allow that, if the intended use for group dividers is only those cases, where the cast list is actually split in sections (and not only with plural roles as above), then I wouldn't add them myself.

I think I have contributed a couple of profiles so far, where I have used group dividers for plural roles like above. There have been no "No"-votes for them (for whatever that's worth).
Mika
I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez)
 Last edited: by Draxen
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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per Ken's clarification in the Rules Committee Forum... we use them for all group roles.... matching the credits. So the example above is a group role. A group of cast while using 1 role.

But what I believe the OP is talking about would not be a group role matching the credits. As there is no role name for any. Then we would be inventing data since there could be no group role since there is no roles what so ever.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDraxen
I see shiny discs...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Ok, thanks for clarification.

I think though, that group dividers in the OP's case should be eventually acceptable, and I hope there will be update in the rules for that. If we don't have credited role names to start with, we are already "inventing" data that is not there. Rules allow that, so that's ok.

If the most suitable "given" role names in the OP's example is simply "Nurse", I would rather see them under a group divider "Nurses" as we would if those roles were actually credited. It would make the data between profiles look more uniform.
Mika
I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez)
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I think the problem/concern is that, unless you are getting the role names from the official film site, they are subjectively created by the person(s) who entered them into that other source.  I would rather not create dividers based on that.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDraxen
I see shiny discs...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 681
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Yes, not in current rules (with Ken's clarification). But if the rules allowed the use of group dividers also in cases where role names are not given, wouldn't the following be interchangeable options?

Jane Doe --- Nurse
Joan Doe --- Nurse
Jill Doe ----- Nurse

...

Nurses
Jane Doe
Joan Doe
Jill Doe?

If the contributor's choice of role name "Nurse" is accepted, why would the sorting them with group dividers heighten the bar for accepting the contribution? If contributor makes clear that role names are not given in credits and he has used other source (or film itself) for them, everyone knows that the group divider is not in the credits anymore than role names. It is just a question of re-organizing the cast list to correspond the credited movies with plural roles. Not inventing more data than individual "nurse"-rolenames would mean.

But, yes, this case is moot as long as Ken doesn't want the use of group dividers for no-rolenames cast lists.
Mika
I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez)
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