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Puppeteers...add a crew role for them.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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After being involved in several discussions concerning adding puppeteers to the cast list, I have come to the conclusion that the easiest solution is to create a crew role for them.  What does everyone think?
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Undoubtedly, someone will argue that if they appear within the cast list, then they cannot be listed as crew!

Personally, I've given up caring.  Because they are credited in films both ways, trying to force them into one group or the other exclusively will always create a conflict for someone.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
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If you make them crew, a role cannot be assigned (for cases where a puppeteer plays one character). Or, it could be a a custom assignment, but that could not be contributed.
Hans
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
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I don't think we should record them anywhere except locally.

How many puppeteer credits are there? I've never encountered one as a contributor. I think I may have seen one contributed by someone else once, but I'm not sure.

It seems like a lot of effort is being spent to define something that is a rare credit.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
After being involved in several discussions concerning adding puppeteers to the cast list, I have come to the conclusion that the easiest solution is to create a crew role for them.  What does everyone think?


I honestly don't really care, but I can see why people would want them. However, it should be all or nothing (as someone mentioned in the discussion thread).

I don't think it should be that big of a deal if they are added to the cast list, though. At the end of the day, while I don't care one way or the other, I would be more supportive of it being added than not, even if I don't have a need for it.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Alien:

This affects far more than Puppeteers, also Additional Voices and even Stunts which are sometimes included with Cast and sometimes NOT.

The best suggestion I have seen thus far, is to stick with the Cast Rule, but to be allow Puppeteers, Srtunts and additional voices to added under Crew when they are not part of the cast. That should make everyone happy. Fact is we don't have the ability to deign what Cast when the data is not in the Cast listing and pretending that we can opens the door to virtually everything being Cast.

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 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
I don't think we should record them anywhere except locally.

How many puppeteer credits are there? I've never encountered one as a contributor. I think I may have seen one contributed by someone else once, but I'm not sure.

It seems like a lot of effort is being spent to define something that is a rare credit.

I have encountered quite a few but, to be honest, I don't care either way.  I just want a way to stop the fighting over this issue.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
I have encountered quite a few but, to be honest, I don't care either way.  I just want a way to stop the fighting over this issue.

What proportion would you say you see in cast credits versus elsewhere in the credits?
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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If I had to guess, since I can't think of an example off the top of my head, I would have to say most are elsewhere in the credits...which might explain why we don't see this very often.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
If I had to guess, since I can't think of an example off the top of my head, I would have to say most are elsewhere in the credits...which might explain why we don't see this very often.

Thanks. I am sincerely curious about the attention this topic has garnered. I'm wondering if more time has been spent talking about them in the forums than all of the time ever spent contributing one. 

I haven't yet located anything online in terms of organizations of puppeteers. In the Oscar categories, we're still not tracking the Set Decorator, an Oscar co-recipient with the Art Director. In the Emmy categories, in addition to Set Decorators, we also don't cover the following Emmy recipients:

Camera Operators
Technical Directors
Stunt Coordinators
Casting
Character Designer
Character Animator
Background Painter
Choreography
Hairstyling
Lighting
Title Design

I'm not advocating that we add any of the above (with the exception of Set Decorator, but that's my pet peeve that an Oscar recipient has been excluded), but it seems to me that these roles would be more important to add a crew role for before we get to adding puppeteers. The fact that the above roles are recognized by the awards industry indicates their relative importance to me over the ones that don't get the awards.

On that basis, as I said earlier, I'm in favor of leaving out puppeteers. In fact, I would remove all reference to them from the rules.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Well, James, that I would have to disagree with. Your question about the percentage is not really too relevant. If there are any, and there are, puppeteers that are part of the cast, just as there are additionalvoices and stunt people which are ocassionally part of a Cast listing AND even Doubles. To blanket exclude them when they are part of a Cast list would be just WRONG. While I don't disagree with you relative to other crew data, including Puppeters, Add Voices and stunts if they are not part of the cast is merely a compromise to make those who want that data happy

I'll support your additional Crew, but I won't go along with a blanket exclusion for the reasons I have explained.

Skip
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Outta here

Billy Video
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