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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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DILASCIO |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 5,734 |
| Posted: | | | | Good evening, Sirs,
tonight I'm interested in the capitalization of the last name DILASCIO (ac, entirely capitalized).
What's the standard?
Love, bbBbb | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Without any other information, I would go with 'DiLascio'. If I had the actual name, I would do some research to see how he/she capitalizes it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: August 4, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,441 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote: Good evening, Sirs,
tonight I'm interested in the capitalization of the last name DILASCIO (ac, entirely capitalized).
What's the standard?
Love, bbBbb If is an italian name it could be DiLascio or Di Lascio, or also di LascioFor example there is the actress Diane DiLascio, but is not easy to see if her common name is Diane DiLascio or Diane Dilascio, both are possible. | | | Updated List of Accepted Birth Years |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting bbbbb: Quote: What's the standard? The standard, per the rules, is to "list names exactly as they are in the credits". As far as I'm concerned, that means that I keep it simple, and won't invent anything that isn't on the screen. No ifs, no buts, no external documentation to support "real" or "correct" names - if I see DILASCIO, I will enter "Dilascio", and if I see DiLASCIO, I will enter "DiLascio". | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | You are forgetting the exception to that rule... " Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead." I may be wrong, but I don't think 'use standard capitalization rules' means to capitalize the first letter only. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: I may be wrong, but I don't think 'use standard capitalization rules' means to capitalize the first letter only. They do - simply because besides that, there are no other standard capitalization rules for names. And that's because names simply aren't standardized - either way could be correct. The key is that we're not necessarily after "correct" names for DVD Profiler purposes, merely the most-credited form. It's the same as how we've repeatedly been told to enter, for example, an on-screen credit of FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT as "Francois Truffaut". There, too, we don't get to apply outside sources, or even our own knowledge, to transcribe that as "François Truffaut": if it's not on the screen, we don't enter it. This is the same thing: if there's no special accentuation of the letter "L" on-screen, then there's no special accentuation of the letter "L" in DVD Profiler. That's what I've always been told, anyway. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 599 |
| Posted: | | | | I say Hiroshi "DILASCIO" Ikeuchi. Sorry, couldn't pass that one up. | | | Last edited: by Antares |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
They do - simply because there are no other standard capitalization rules for names. They're simply not standardized, so they can't be subject to any kind of blanket rule. Just enter what you see, and you can never go wrong. It's the same as how we've repeatedly been told to enter, for example, an on-screen credit of FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT as "Francois Truffaut". There, too, we don't get to apply outside sources to prove that it must be "François Truffaut": if it's not on the screen, we don't enter it. This is the same thing: if there's no accentuation of the letter "L" on-screen, then there's no accentuation of the letter "L" in DVD Profiler. You are mixing apples and oranges. That was a decision, made by Ken, for a specific situation and has no bearing on this issue. We have been around the block on this before, with Danny DeVito, and I refuse to go around it again. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | IMHO, it's exactly the same thing. It all boils down to: don't invent data that you don't see on the screen - even if you feel you know it to be "correct". But you're right: I'd rather not go around the block again either. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | But there is the problem with your stance...it isn't inventing data. We have to convert the all cap data into mixed case data. We have no choice. The only thing the FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT example covered, and Ken explained it at the time, was that we are to convert on a 1 to 1 basis. Meaning 'C' = 'c' and 'Ç' = 'ç'. Converting 'C' into 'ç' is inventing data, converting 'C' into 'c' is not.
Converting 'DILASCIO' into 'DiLascio' is not inventing data. Interpreting the data, yes. Inventing it, no. Since the rules require us to interpret the data, I prefer to interpret it correctly. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Since the rules require us to interpret the data, I prefer to interpret it correctly. Except that, in the grand scheme of things, we really don't know what "correct" is except for just a handful of examples. Our entire "exactly as credited" basis is based on never having to look elsewhere to document what the "real" or "correct" names are, but to simply deal with what you see on the screen and nothing else. "Interpreting" just about anything here has lead to disaster here time and time again - resorting to "interpreting" is essentially just a sure-fire guarantee that different users will keep doing it different ways, and we'll never reach any form of consistency. There has to be a basic principle to get us all on the same page. As far as I've understood it, that principle is: as little "interpretation" as possible. The "if there's no special accentuation of the letter "L" on-screen, then there's no special accentuation of the letter "L" in DVD Profiler" approach always seemed like a pretty consistent one - one that can easily be applied accross the board, for well-known people and complete unknowns alike. But as soon as we're all going to let our own "interpretations" run wild, we might as well give up hope on a consistent online database right now. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | I have already given up on that because people are letting their own "interpretations" run wild...even though, for most areas, the rules don't allow it. In this case, however, the rules do so I will continue to strive for the correct one as often as I can. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,480 |
| Posted: | | | | Isn't it the case that -- excluding the situation of Ç & ç -- that DVDP does not recognize changes in capitalization in names? I have experienced that if a name is, for example, 'DiLascio' in the main db and I have 'Dilascio' in my local db, that retrieving an update does not change my local db's capitalization. And I think it's the same with contributing that if I contribute 'Dilascio' and try to change a 'DiLascio' in the main db that, even if my contribution is accepted, the main db will not change. Is this true? If so, this is one of those arguments that has no answer and virtually no consequences either way. (I'm thinking that if a user doesn't have a form of Dilascio in their db, they'll get whatever the main db provides...but aside from that...) | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | You are correct. The reason I have an issue with it, and this came up during the Danny DeVito discussion, is that some people advocated a 'Danny DeVito (Danny Devito) approach based on how the credit is presented. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote: Isn't it the case that [...] that DVDP does not recognize changes in capitalization in names?: That's a common misconception: Quoting Ken Cole: Quote: The DBISAM database engine does distinguish cases. So it really does matter what we enter - for the database, "Dilascio" and "DiLascio" are not the same. You're confusing this with the fact that the local portion of the software "protects" your local value to be overwritten by whatever capitalization is in the profile you're downloading. And rightly so, because such a (likely unnoticed) change would affect not only that particular profile, but all others in which the same person appears as well: Quoting Ken Cole: Quote: For actor names, this operates that way intentionally so that if a profile update comes down it won't automatically change the actor name case. So if the person isn't in your database yet, you'll get whatever's in the profile you're downloading, but if you have the person in your database already, your local form of capitalization is preserved. That doesn't change the fact that the database does distinguish cases. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: The key is that we're not necessarily after "correct" names for DVD Profiler purposes I would say for contribution purposes. Do not forget that dvdprofiler is a program with huge local features, and fortunately, we can use correct names in our locals. Without that possibility, dvdprofiler would be totally useless, as incorrect names should not interest many true fans of movies. | | | Images from movies |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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