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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,879 |
| Posted: | | | | If a composer is credited, but the music was not originally composed for the film - Beethoven or Vivaldi, for instance - should he be credited in the profile?
I checked the rules, but didn't see anything specific, and I wasn't certain, since the consensus is not to add the credit for song writers whose songs were used in the soundtrack (& credited) but weren't written for the film. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -- Thorin Oakenshield |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Well, the rules say that the 'composer' credit is to be "Used for the composer of the film's Original Score". And anything composed by Beethoven or Vivaldi two- or threehundred years ago really can't be considered Original Score, IMHO. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Tim is right, but I thin I understand your confusion. "Used for the composer of the film's Original Score" Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: April 2, 2007 | Posts: 156 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Well, the rules say that the 'composer' credit is to be "Used for the composer of the film's Original Score". And anything composed by Beethoven or Vivaldi two- or threehundred years ago really can't be considered Original Score, IMHO. Well, what about, let's say, Mozart's Magic Flute. The Score IS hundreds of years old, but still ORIGINAL. Eg. in Branagh's adaptation it is Mozart's composition that is used. So IMHO this is not definite. In my example Mozart qualifies as "Composer", but other "part use" of the score may not qualify. ( Independent of timeframe since composing... ) | | | Karsten |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,414 |
| Posted: | | | | I think per the rules that Beethoven and Vivaldi have to be out; it can't be the "original score" for the movie if it was written 100 years or more before the movie. I disagree and would prefer that they be included, but that's how I understand the rule. | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,879 |
| Posted: | | | | That's what I figured was the answer - except in actual performances, like Opera or something, for the full score, like karstenp was mentioning. I think that should be the exception. But I figured that the Ingmar Bergman film To Joy probably shouldn't have Beethoven in the online profile, even if he is credited.
The confusion comes in that the rules tell us to enter the credits as given, and in cases like that or Seasons, the composer is credited. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -- Thorin Oakenshield |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | When talking in film terms, we are after the music written specifically for the film. While I understand the desire to enter these guys, the rules do not allow it at this time. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 756 |
| Posted: | | | | I suppose one could argue that an opera score is original music.....was it Mozart's fault that Hollywood took two centuries to get around to making the movie? Where was Eighteenth Century Fox when Wolfgang Amadeus needed them! However, I have to go with the Martian on this one....... | | | Chris | | | Last edited: by Mole |
| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,004 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote: I think per the rules that Beethoven and Vivaldi have to be out; it can't be the "original score" for the movie if it was written 100 years or more before the movie. Development hell? |
| Registered: April 2, 2007 | Posts: 156 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Mole: Quote: I suppose one could argue that an opera score is original music.....was it Mozart's fault that Hollywood took two centuries to get around to making the movie?
Well, so count me in for "one"... Unicus: My opinion is that the rules allow my interpretation. Of course I can "keep it local" if not ALLOWED. | | | Karsten |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | I agree the wording of the rules could be clearer.
Maybe "use for composer(s) who wrote music specifically for the film". | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,917 |
| Posted: | | | | That is my view of the spirit of the rule - music composed for the movie. |
| Registered: April 2, 2007 | Posts: 156 |
| Posted: | | | | Well... I want Profiler to be functional. For me. ( And for you. And for Invelos ) So I don't want to ruin that by thinking the rulemakers did not want me to interpret it my way... maybe. I hope the rulemakers, and espesially Invelos wanted to make the program most functional, but of course, not inaccurate, wrong etc. I (as I maybe already have tried to tell a couple of times) do not think it is WRONG to credit eg. Mozart for the score of the Magic Flute, even if the celluid or, indeed, the DVD was not invented. Worst case we might not be able to credit anything written before the invention of the DVD... I fully understand, however, that we (today) are not allowed to credit Mozart, nor Beatles, nor Bowie ("Life on Mars", anyone?), for music NOT originally intended for the play, but I still cannot understand why it should NOT be benficary to accept the examples. (Opera is one, there might be more) An example of my interpretation of doubtful credit according to existing rules may be Mozart's (still Mozart...) credit for Composing for "Elvira Madigan" (even if the music has inherited title from the movie, centuries after The Man's death... ) I have no wish of having to use I**B.com to find which of my DVDs containing music by any of my favourite composers, even if the were born long before the invention of sound on movies, or movies at all. Even before me. I hope next version have options for original music as well as not original music BTW. I loved Mole's: "was it Mozart's fault that Hollywood took two centuries to get around to making the movie?" ((This is btw. one of my longest epos in English, I hope you understand what I try to say... )) | | | Karsten | | | Last edited: by karstenp |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | We are dealing with film credits here. If you look up the term "Original Score", you will get two Wikipedia entries. Academy Award for Best Music (Scoring): The Academy Award for Original Music Score is presented to the best substantial body of music in the form of dramatic underscoring written specifically for the film by the submitting composer. Film score: A score is written specifically to accompany a film, by the original film's composer(s). As I said, I do understand the desire to track some of these credits, but we need a new field for that. We should not lump them into the current profiler credit as it makes the data meaningless. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Unicus. And you captured precisely the intent of the Rule. Those that wish to track the Classical Music composer can always do so compltely locally OR by using the Custom data field for Music. And i do understand the desire to track it. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: April 2, 2007 | Posts: 156 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: ... as it makes the data meaningless. Sorry! I do not agree! The data is NOT meaningless, in the examples given. We do not, in fact, disagree, that much, but "lumping them in" is not MY interpretation, as I, in my opinion, am allowed to enter the data, not only local, but even to contibutions. In writing plays we have O.M.B, not that easy for music, I guess... Even in this case this calls for Invelos' voice, as neither voting, nor strong opinions in one or another direction can show the intention (original or adapted) of the program makers. I know what I hope was intended.... or could be of no violation. ( And most users ( my guess...no poll made) don't even care about music made in 1791, or thereabout.... ) | | | Karsten |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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