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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Parsing Native American Names |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, the common name is nothing to do with the "as credited" field. Nothing at all, no relation between the two. The common name doesn't have to resemble the "as credited" field (Marty Fromage for example), but it can still be right for the purpose it was meant for, which is linking people. However, that's a completely separate discussion which has already been had time and time again. This topic isn't about multiple people who may or may not have similar names, it's how to parse the names of individuals based simply on their credited fashions. Simply saying "what's onscreen, put it in and be done with it" does not solve the problem of trying to find a useful and consistent manner of dealing with common names, be it for individuals, cultural groups, and certainly not for people of the same name. It doesn't even help on a case-by-case basis, it's just pushing the whole thing under the rug.
It's not even about prefixes, this is just something that was picked up on by both myself and Hal. Why you seem to think it has anything to do with encouraging people to document properly, I have no idea, I'm sure it's a logical leap from a certain point of view. However, if you don't have anything to add on the matter - that's fine! But don't try and make the whole thing into something it isn't so that you can weigh in and pass judgement. If you wanna discuss people's failure to document, why not start a thread to that effect, which may make a positive difference, instead of trying to mire discussion that might actually progress usefully? One thread, one topic. It's a marvellous prospect. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 550 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
"As Credited" is not at issue here. This is a parsing issue only. All of the examples are "As Credited":
Example: Chief Dan George
Chief Dan George //
Chief / Dan / George
Chief Dan // George
Dan // George [Credited as Chief Dan George]
Example: Eddie Little Sky
Eddie / Little / Sky
Eddie Little Sky //
Eddie // Little Sky With Chief, I would think of that as a title like Sir so I would think the last option: Dan // George [Credited as Chief Dan George] With the second example, I have to say Eddie would be the first name, no middle name, and though there isn't a - between Little and Sky I think they are both the last name going by grammer with Little describing Sky. Anyways, I agree with the last one there also: Eddie // Little Sky | | | Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Nadja: Quote:
Skip, the common name is nothing to do with the "as credited" field. Nothing at all, no relation between the two. The common name doesn't have to resemble the "as credited" field (Marty Fromage for example), but it can still be right for the purpose it was meant for, which is linking people. However, that's a completely separate discussion which has already been had time and time again. This topic isn't about multiple people who may or may not have similar names, it's how to parse the names of individuals based simply on their credited fashions. Simply saying "what's onscreen, put it in and be done with it" does not solve the problem of trying to find a useful and consistent manner of dealing with common names, be it for individuals, cultural groups, and certainly not for people of the same name. It doesn't even help on a case-by-case basis, it's just pushing the whole thing under the rug.
It's not even about prefixes, this is just something that was picked up on by both myself and Hal. Why you seem to think it has anything to do with encouraging people to document properly, I have no idea, I'm sure it's a logical leap from a certain point of view. However, if you don't have anything to add on the matter - that's fine! But don't try and make the whole thing into something it isn't so that you can weigh in and pass judgement. If you wanna discuss people's failure to document, why not start a thread to that effect, which may make a positive difference, instead of trying to mire discussion that might actually progress usefully? One thread, one topic. It's a marvellous prospect. YOU made the comment, I responded to it. Sheesh get over yourself already, i even paid you a compliment and you STILL want to argue. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | NOW, as to Chief Dan George,, somebody show me ANY movie where he has been credited as OTHER than Chief Dand George...you WON'T find it.YET another attempt to insert TOTALLY fictitious data into the Db, coming from Hal I am not surprised. I suspect that any such idea would be rather insulting to the Chief were he still alive. You people want to get upset about being culturally sensitive to the Chinese and the naming conventions of other cultures yet.....<shakes head> The logic around here is just TOO bizarre.Perhaps the LACK of logic or consistency is more to the point.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
YOU made the comment, I responded to it. Sheesh get over yourself already, i even paid you a compliment and you STILL want to argue. The only comment I made was that you are yet again trying to put to bed a discussion that you feel your opinion concludes. Don't claim that you have to go tangential in order to counter me. And by the way, "you're not one of the idiots I'm criticising" is not a compliment. | | | | Last edited: by Nadja |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | From Aboriginal Multimedia Society: Quote:
Geswanouth Slahoot was born July 24, 1899 on the Burrard reserve in North Vancouver. He went by the name Dan Slahoot, the English version of his childhood nickname, Teswahno, until he went to St. Paul's boarding school at the age of five. There, where the students weren't allowed to speak their Native languages, they changed his name to Dan George, taking his new surname from his father's English name, George.
He became Chief Dan George in 1951 when he took over as chief of the Burrard band from his father. He continued in that role until 1963, when his acting career began. Chief Dan George was made honorary chief of two other bands, the Squamish and Shuswap. From NativeCelebs: Quote:
Chief Leonard George
"Smoke Signals" is a Coast Salish native of North Vancouver, B.C. He is the Chief of the Burrard Indian Band. He is also a son of the late Chief Dan George ("Little Big Man" with Dustin Hoffman, and "The Outlaw of Josie Wales" with Clint Eastwood). Leonard succeded (sic) his father as chief after he had passed away, and is currently still the chief. Looks like a prefix to me. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
Dan // George [Credited as Chief Dan George] <<-- I'm leaning this way
Eddie // Little Sky <<-- My preference, as I believe Little Sky is actually his surname Correct. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
NOW, as to Chief Dan George,, somebody show me ANY movie where he has been credited as OTHER than Chief Dand George...you WON'T find it.YET another attempt to insert TOTALLY fictitious data into the Db, coming from Hal I am not surprised. I suspect that any such idea would be rather insulting to the Chief were he still alive. You people want to get upset about being culturally sensitive to the Chinese and the naming conventions of other cultures yet.....<shakes head> The logic around here is just TOO bizarre.Perhaps the LACK of logic or consistency is more to the point.
Skip Another totally unprovoked attack!  I said it should be entered as 'Chief Dan//George'. (see the second post in this thread!) You said it should be entered as 'Chief Dan//George'. And then you attack me for agreeing with you! Simply unbelievable!  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | My apologies Hal, I thought you were supporting using Dan George, which would COMPLETELY fictitious.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
My apologies Hal, I thought you were supporting using Dan George, which would COMPLETELY fictitious.
Skip Accepted. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,316 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
NOW, as to Chief Dan George,, somebody show me ANY movie where he has been credited as OTHER than Chief Dand George...you WON'T find it.YET another attempt to insert TOTALLY fictitious data into the Db, coming from Hal I am not surprised. I suspect that any such idea would be rather insulting to the Chief were he still alive. You people want to get upset about being culturally sensitive to the Chinese and the naming conventions of other cultures yet.....<shakes head> The logic around here is just TOO bizarre.Perhaps the LACK of logic or consistency is more to the point. SHEESH. Maybe I should have made up a name instead of using a recognizable one. I wasn't attempting to put any data into the system - fictitious or otherwise. I was just polling the forum to see what the consensus was concerning crediting Native Americans. Though, how you could call an entry of Dan George "fictitious" is beyond me. It may not be appropriate to call him Dan George in the database (which I agree it is) it is hardly a "fiction" to use it. That is one reason why people "jump" over you, Skip. You throw words around without considering what they mean. While "Dan George" usage is probably (definitely) wrong, it certainly isn't "fictitious." And just because you calling it "fictitious" doesn't make it so. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 | | | | Last edited: by kdh1949 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken:
It is fictitious because, at least thus far, the Commnon Name has been based on CREDITS. Therefore Dan George would be fictitious as he has never been thusly credited. Dan George would be both inappropriate and fictitious based upon CREDITS and culture.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 550 |
| | Posted: | | | | I still think Chief is a title like Sir since it was a title given to him after his dad passed and he became the chief. Yes, he is creditted as Chief Dan George as he was the chief when he was in the movies, but his name is Dan George and he is is creditted as Chief Dan George so I think Dan // George [Credited as Chief Dan George] is correct.
If it was Chief Billy Jack I would say it should be entered as Billy // Jack [Credited as Chief Billy Jack] | | | Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Schultzy:
But Billy Jack has been credited as Billy Jack, you will find NO such credit for Dan George. So we rae now into CREATING fictious names which have no relation to any MOVIE credit, this is going to get to be great fun....NOT. This database is going to hell in a handbasket...FAST.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Again with the "fictitious" label. Do you have any idea what the word means? As I pointed out before, Dan George WAS the man's name at one time - so it there is nothing "fictitious" about it. If I were to call him Joe Shlabotnik, THAT would be a fictitious name. I will concede that it would be uncorrect to show him as Dan George, because (as I believe I mentioned in a previous post) he was credited as CHIEF Dan George throughout his entire career. But to claim that Dan George is a fictitious name is simply preposterous. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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