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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Alan Smithee |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unicus:
I won't argue that. My argument is aimed at the broader concept and as I have said repeatedly until Ken reveals his plan I cannot and will not place myself in the position of trying to take time to determine a Common name, to (1) spend 40 pages arguing the point and (2) risk having to spend ADDITIONAL time to redo or undo what has already been done. I want to implement as much as anyone else does, but I think anyone who is attempting to do so now is CRAZY beyond belief.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Peter:
You just nailed my argument. Ken has not released Criteria or Standards, who gets to decide what the Common Name is, upon what basis? Based on the common name in your 600 title collection, the Comon name based upon my 3000+ Collection, or someone else's, or some OTHER sort of Criteria, or maybe we just use a dartboard.
Skip
I understand this argument for things like 'Benjamin Smith' vs 'Ben Smith'. But for well known pseudonyms, it doesn't fly. There are ways to document what director used 'Alan Smithee' for a particular film. So what? Directors have used different names for years for a variety of reasons. During the Black List days of the McCarthy hearings, many people used pseudonyms just to be able to work at all, and never got credit for the work they did. But I think you'll find it next to impossible to document this in a way that will fly. Use what is in the crew list and move on. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
So what? Directors have used different names for years for a variety of reasons. During the Black List days of the McCarthy hearings, many people used pseudonyms just to be able to work at all, and never got credit for the work they did. But I think you'll find it next to impossible to document this in a way that will fly. Use what is in the crew list and move on. If that is the way you want to do things, be my guest. I, however, plan to use the features that are in the program. If John Carpenter directed a film under the name 'Bilbo Baggins', and I can find documentation to support it, that is how I will contribute it. That is the purpose of the field. As I said, I am not quite ready to tackle the 'John Smith' vs 'Johnathan Smith' situations, but for easily documented pseudonyms...I am more than willing to handle those. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,432 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
If that is the way you want to do things, be my guest. I, however, plan to use the features that are in the program. If John Carpenter directed a film under the name 'Bilbo Baggins', and I can find documentation to support it, that is how I will contribute it. That is the purpose of the field. He has yet to direct under a pseudonym, but he was credited for the writing under a different name several time (Martin Quatermass and at least one more, whcih escapes me right now...) At least locally I have credited him accordingly. | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 137 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ya_shin: Quote:
He has yet to direct under a pseudonym, but he was credited for the writing under a different name several time (Martin Quatermass and at least one more, whcih escapes me right now...) I think his other pseudonym was Frank Armitage in They Live.  On topic, I completely agree about having this on DVDProfiler as long as the contributor is willing to provide a couple of sources for the info. BTW, this is my first post, although I've been an avid forum reader since the IVS days. By now, I think I have a pretty good understanding about how things work around here, so... be gentle  | | | Funny, these cookies don't taste anything like Girl Scouts.
DVD Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I promise not to bite, Sailor.....hard.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
So what? Directors have used different names for years for a variety of reasons. During the Black List days of the McCarthy hearings, many people used pseudonyms just to be able to work at all, and never got credit for the work they did. But I think you'll find it next to impossible to document this in a way that will fly. Use what is in the crew list and move on. Quoting THE RULES: Quote:
Use the "As Credited" field where the person's name differs from the credited name. Are you just arguing for the sake of it? What more straightforward use could there be for the "as credited" field? Documentation goes without saying. Saying "go with as credited on the disc" completely ignores this rule and is, in fact, invalid. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Nadja: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
So what? Directors have used different names for years for a variety of reasons. During the Black List days of the McCarthy hearings, many people used pseudonyms just to be able to work at all, and never got credit for the work they did. But I think you'll find it next to impossible to document this in a way that will fly. Use what is in the crew list and move on.
Quoting THE RULES:
Quote:
Use the "As Credited" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.
Are you just arguing for the sake of it? What more straightforward use could there be for the "as credited" field? Documentation goes without saying. Saying "go with as credited on the disc" completely ignores this rule and is, in fact, invalid. What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name. Sure you can. Rule: Use the "As Credited" field where the person's name differs from the credited name.person's name = Walter Hill credited name = Alan Smithee Walter Hill [as Alan Smithee] | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. Quite right. The pseudonym is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the common name, so belongs in the "as credited" field. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name. I feel like I am living in Bizarro World. John Carpenter wrote the screenplay for 'Prince of Darkness' under the pseudonym Martin Quatermass. Per the rules, this should be listed in the profile as: Common Name: John Carpenter Credited As: Martin Quatermass From my research, Carpenter has used several pseudonyms: Frank Armitage, James T. Chance, John T. Chance, Rip Haight and Martin Quatermass. All of those, with proper documentation, should be linked to him using the 'Common Name/Credited As' feature. This statement is based 100% on the rules. I don't understand how you can't see that.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name.
I feel like I am living in Bizarro World. John Carpenter wrote the screenplay for 'Prince of Darkness' under the pseudonym Martin Quatermass. Per the rules, this should be listed in the profile as:
Common Name: John Carpenter
Credited As: Martin Quatermass
From my research, Carpenter has used several pseudonyms: Frank Armitage, James T. Chance, John T. Chance, Rip Haight and Martin Quatermass. All of those, with proper documentation, should be linked to him using the 'Common Name/Credited As' feature. This statement is based 100% on the rules. I don't understand how you can't see that. Most of us can see that. John does not want to see that.  pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 585 |
| | Posted: | | | | I found this discussion interesting enough to check my profiles for any Alan Smithee's or Carpenter aliases but only found one. It didn't take much to find out the director and get solid sources so I've submitted the changed profile. This will be interesting to see how it goes.
-edit-
I just wanted to mention this incase my wording came off this way. I'm not doing this "just to test the responses". I'm doing it because it's accurate and gives the proper credit where it should be while maintaining how the credit appeared in the on-screen credits. Plus, it's not anything that needs to wait for Ken's Common Name solution. | | | "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" - Douglas Bader
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams | | | | Last edited: by Vega |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
What part of this don't you people get? A pseudonym is NOT the same thing as a 'common name'. If the credit role has Joe Blow as the name, I don't care how many sources say 'that's a pseudonym for Jack Rabbit', you can't substitute it for what is in the credits because it ain't the common name.
I feel like I am living in Bizarro World. John Carpenter wrote the screenplay for 'Prince of Darkness' under the pseudonym Martin Quatermass. Per the rules, this should be listed in the profile as:
Common Name: John Carpenter
Credited As: Martin Quatermass
From my research, Carpenter has used several pseudonyms: Frank Armitage, James T. Chance, John T. Chance, Rip Haight and Martin Quatermass. All of those, with proper documentation, should be linked to him using the 'Common Name/Credited As' feature. This statement is based 100% on the rules. I don't understand how you can't see that.
Most of us can see that.
John does not want to see that.
pdf It has nothing to do with not 'seeing' it, wise guy. I just don't buy into this rabid obsession you all have with linking every damn name in the list with something else. But even there, I can see some logic in matching up variations of the SAME name, if only to avoid ping pong updating. But there is NO logic is sticking a pseudonym in there. Stuff like this should be relegated to movie trivia, and not chiseled in stone in the main database. Most people use pseudonyms for a reason, and this isn't one of them. Far as I'm concerned, if it isn't listed in the credits, it isn't legit. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Nadja:
What don't YOU understand. Who determines the common name and on what basis....YOU based on what the MOST common name is in YOUR database. I think not. Nor is it me and my database. Nor is it John and his. We are all quite likely to produce a different answer. Is the most common name the actor's first credited appearance, it could be any number of possibilities IF users are going to make the decision and if there is one thing I know IF users are going to make the choice we are going to wind up with ping-pong data as users argue over THEIR particular choice of the Common Name. Or we are going engage in 40 page discussions over which is the correct name...such fun....NOT!!!!!!! There are one way to handle that and that is through Ken and the Master Database, he has not yet released his plan, he has told us what he intends. IF users are going to be involved then a different system has to be used.
So anything done NOW in the Common name area is subject to having to be redone or worse yet undone. So if YOU want to play with Common Name be my guest, I am not willing to waste time with it and risk having to spend MORE time going back and fixing it, whether it is by Contribution or dealing with updates.
This has nothing to do with an Alan Smithee as long as documentation is provided.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 813 |
| | Posted: | | | |  Talk about Red Herrings to drag things away from the topic at hand. This has nothing to do with common names. I agree with those with the common sense - the perfect use for Credited as. Some people need to move with the times and accept that DVDP is no longer just As Credited for cast and crew.  | | | Andy 
"Credited as" Names Database | | | | Last edited: by Lopek |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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