Quoting Dr Pavlov:

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No the program says LAST Name, James. It does NOT say Surname, Family Name nor any other possible variation. You are applying your belief to it. Despite the detailed explanations that have been offered over the years.  IF Surname or Family Name was the intent then the terminology woild have been used, just stay with the terminology and don't try and apply your definition or teminology to it.

The problem with this kind of thing is that you WANT to create your interpretation and how it was meant is not relevant. You do not wish to follow anything nor anyone, regardless it was me that has offered the explanation and as I have noted before Ken has never shyed from letting me know when he disagreed. For all the years I have explained this Ken has never ONCE said anything to the contrary, the only people saying that is a small handful of users. I would suggest to you thay absent a comment from Ken, I have been giving the correct explanation. God forbid.

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The program says Last Name. Last Name is surname. They are equivalent. The fact that he provides a way to sort by it (which is a traditional surname sort) proves that. The fact that Ken states he won't eliminate the functionality of the sort speaks to that. I can't see that he would abandon this sort in favor of word counting after he just said he won't.

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Surname is the intent.  If that will result in less confusion, it's an easy change for the next release.

Thank you for this clarification.

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Surname is the intent.  If that will result in less confusion, it's an easy change for the next release.

Any chance you could confirm that the above does NOT apply to Asian names, at least for the time-being until a more long-term solution is implemented?

Quoting xradman:

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Quoting northbloke:

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Quoting Ken Cole:

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Surname is the intent.  If that will result in less confusion, it's an easy change for the next release.

Any chance you could confirm that the above does NOT apply to Asian names, at least for the time-being until a more long-term solution is implemented?

Why would it be any different for Asian names?  If it doesn't, then doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose of clarification?

Up to this point, Asian Surnames have not been placed in the "Last Name" field.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, this would mean that all titles with Asian names in them will need to be corrected....if there is no exception for them.

Quoting xradman:

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Quoting northbloke:

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Quoting Ken Cole:

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Surname is the intent.  If that will result in less confusion, it's an easy change for the next release.

Any chance you could confirm that the above does NOT apply to Asian names, at least for the time-being until a more long-term solution is implemented?

Why would it be any different for Asian names?  If it doesn't, then doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose of clarification?

I asked for the exemption simply to stop a flood of submissions of Yun-Fat//Chow credited as Chow Yun-Fat. This thread is about double-barrelled names, and Ken has simply clarified what he intended the last name field to be used for only in terms of those names.
As he hasn't mentioned Asian names and this thread wasn't about Asian names I simply didn't want to see people jump the gun and possibly cause damage to the database before Ken actually does make a statement about how we deal with Asian names. I'm just saying we wait and see if he comes up with a proper, long-term plan about how to deal with them.

Quoting xradman:

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Hal, I realize that.  However, AFAIK this entire Last name = Surname fiasco has mainly involved Asian names.

Actually, it is more often about parsing double-barrelled last names.

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We now have clarification from Ken stating that the Last name = Surname.  Why would you then exclude Asian names from this rule?  It sort of defeats the purpose of this clarification.

It may seem that way, but it is a needed exclusion...at least for now, and for the reasons already mentioned.  I took a quick look at your profile and see that you have 2,285 owned titles.  Now imagine, for a minute, that all those were Asian titles.  We have users where that is the case and those are the users who will have to do all the work to convert all those names.  We have one active user, 14,329 accepted profile contributions, who has already stated he will not be doing that...and I don't blame him.

It is easy to say, we shouldn't exclude Asian names, when you only have a few of them in your collection. 

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Surname is the intent.  If that will result in less confusion, it's an easy change for the next release.  The CLT does not parse names since it doesn't use the name field, only the display name.  So, in the case of an entry with Credited As, it uses that.  Without a Credited As entry it uses the full display name.

Thanks, ken. I was planning on some further explanation, I had thought about all night, but that is not necessary.


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And a big ^5 to you, synner.

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