Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Quoting TheDarkKnight:

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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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All you have to do is READ the entire Rule, Hal. The attitude in your comment is ummmmmm pretty combative, at the least.

ummmmmm, and accusing people of 'selective reading' and 'looking for loopholes' isn't? 

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Such a comment is not only not productive and argumentative.

And comments such as, "you are selectively reading the Rule to create your interpretation," are? 

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You are not in a position to make such a definitive comment. Why must you turn every discussion into a war by making comments like this?

Neither are you and I could ask you the same exact question. 

As I am sure you are aware, Martian, there are comment s that i could add. For example, it was myself that designed the bonus Feature Film prototype that Ken accepted to begin with so I think I know what I am talking about.....hmmmmm.Hal did not design it.

I don't consider "selective reading" to be insulting or in any way attacking. It is a statement of FACT, and the only way you can achieve such an interpretation is through slectively readingh what it is that you wish to interpret, while ignoring the whole, you as a parser par excellence should undferstand that concept. <shrugs>

Skip

(bolding by me)
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Skip you can't expect us to know what your intentions were when you wrote or co-wrote this rule. Whatever it was it's not in the rule as it's written right now. Simple as that, sorry.
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Maybe treating those sets as box sets would be an option, but that's not the point right now.

I am still waiting for you to point me to the rules to understand your "interpretation". Please quote the section for me. So I can see where you are coming from. Right now it looks to me that you are just defending the intentions behind creating the rules but not what's written in the rules.

Why, when I can tell you exactly what it was about. Because you want to do it some other way, that's why.

The difference between profiler and our constitution is that the Supreme Court can not ask ourfounding fathers what their intent was. You can ask, and you can even get answers, but then if you don't like the answer you from someone who does know, you argue the point.

Because of Martian's attitude about such statements I have tried very hard to avoid them. The facts are as i have explained them, like it or not. You have succeeded in convincing me that path of least resistance is not to to try and rework the Rule to include Blade Runner et al, but to simply call Blade Runner and others a Boxset. No changes need to ne made, no arguments need to had, just an ordibnary boxset.

Skip

Skip you are going way overboard here. Please let's stay on topic and focus on the problem on hand. As I said before, one of the rules, "Box Set" or "Bonus Film" has to be modified to profile those sets with different cuts of the same movie in a proper way. Isn't that what we would all like?

I agree that it isn't reasonable to interpret this as covering different cuts of the same film. I can see how it might be sensible to make this the rule, but it isn't now and this appears to be one of only two movies handled in the DB this way despite there being quite a few others that theoretically could be. Also, again this isn't handled as a bonus feature film because there's no way disc 1 can be considered a bonus. Right now, almost every movie is handled one way, which seems to be the way called for in the rules, with very narrow exceptions applied to Brazil (which I think was just done to get the cover art in the DB) and Blade Runner. Narrow, arbitrary exceptions to a rule aren't a good way to run a DB.

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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I agree that it isn't reasonable to interpret this as covering different cuts of the same film. I can see how it might be sensible to make this the rule, but it isn't now and this appears to be one of only two movies handled in the DB this way despite there being quite a few others that theoretically could be. Also, again this isn't handled as a bonus feature film because there's no way disc 1 can be considered a bonus. Right now, almost every disc is handled a particular one way, which seems to be the way called for in the rules, with very narrow exceptions applied to Brazil (which I think was just done to get the cover art in the DB) and Blade Runner. Narrow, arbitrary exceptions to a rule aren't a good way to run a DB.

Well put Ace

Skip

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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I agree that it isn't reasonable to interpret this as covering different cuts of the same film. I can see how it might be sensible to make this the rule, but it isn't now and this appears to be one of only two movies handled in the DB this way despite there being quite a few others that theoretically could be. Also, again this isn't handled as a bonus feature film because there's no way disc 1 can be considered a bonus. Right now, almost every movie is handled one way, which seems to be the way called for in the rules, with very narrow exceptions applied to Brazil (which I think was just done to get the cover art in the DB) and Blade Runner. Narrow, arbitrary exceptions to a rule aren't a good way to run a DB.

Agreed, especially the bolded. I would be fully supportive of the examples discussed in this thread to be labeled box sets, simply for the reason they are not bonus films. In addition, those that are fans of these films can tell you, they are not even the same movie, really. The Argento cut of Dawn vs. the Cannes cut is a good example of this. Also the narrator version of Blade Runner vs. the non-narration version.

Sure, on the surface they appear the same (title, actors, directors (which I use loosely)), but I would speculate that those who purchased these sets would tell you they are different versions of the same movie.

That difference is key, because these aren't just a few minutes of a deleted scene or an alternate ending, in some cases the entire tone of the movie is changed.

Boxset would get my vote for sure.

Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Alien Redrum:

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Boxset would get my vote for sure.

My vote would be the bonus model. IMO this is not a box set with different films. The blade runner set is a single film with some older cuts included as bonus. If I would own this set I would not want the child profiles but the parent profile should include all the data for the final cut.

But the collection is not The Final Cut with bonus films, but rather "The Ulitimate Collector's Edition" that includes the final cut. It is not sold as The Final Cut. It doesn't even say "Blade Runner: The Final Cut", but rather, simply, "Blade Runner".



However, The Final Cut is available as a single release, and it does say "Blade Runner: The Final Cut" as opposed to the Ultimate edition.



There is nothing "bonus" about the films in the Blade Runner package. It is sold as a 5 films, not as 1 with 4 bonus films.

A look around shows that all the versions with multiple cuts are not billed as "The Final Cut" on the front cover. I think it's a real stretch to argue these as box sets, though as I can't see how multiple versions of Blade Runner equals more than one film.

But Disc 3 is seamless branching, Ace, which is already covered under the Rules.

Skip

There are constant demands that the rules be taken literally and that every single letter in every word / every nuance must be taken as a firm command. A full stop missed (or added) is endlessly discussed to see how this affects the rules.

Equally - there are exceptions raised daily which don't fit the rules exactly. And then there are demands that the rules should be taken more generally with some flexibility included.

It seems that we have lost yet again the reason for this program (and database). It is to provide something which taken as a whole is worth something.

If all we strive for is something which is a mirror of a DVD box - then a few screen prints would do this accurately. No more tedious entering of crew and cast - just do a screen print and the job is done. we could even remove most of the program functionality - all you would need is something which would display a few images..

But.. and this is a big but.. the database would be worthless. Nobody would bother buying something which could be seen for ourselves just by picking up the box.

In this case - the extra functionality is that I can separately record which of the different versions of blade runner I have watched. And there are differences - e.g. with the final cut, the actress falling through the glass windows when shot is different from the earlier releases which was played by a stunt woman. As far as I know there are different run times.

Are we supposed to throw away information and record the bare minimum just because it's allowed to record less?

Lets make sure we record information that might actually increase the worth (and functionality).