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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Ken, show some care the forum users and update the rules |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: No Personal Attacks. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | ROFL that was your interpretation, certainly not mine/ Ther was no negativity in that commenrt at ALL.  Nor was it bad in my eyes. Amusing maybe but not bad. Skip<chuckling> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with the necessity to rewrite rules, and I think that what is proposed in the thread "Changes to cast section of rules" goes in the good direction about the content ; specially use common sense solutions, that most people would take if they were not aware of the rules.
Anyway, I still have a big problem with the rules as they are, because they are complicated, long, and with no translation in different languages that make non-english speaking people out of the play. Do not forget that dvdprofiler itself is fully translatable, and that people can read in their own language the invitations of the system to contribute the profiles they changed. If they do not understand rules, they contribute "something", get no votes for reasons they do not understand, and quickly stop contributing. Other people, that would like to complete some data or correct errors but have not the time to learn all those rules, can also be quickly disgusted by no votes.
Rules are made to try to answer each case that can be found, and normalize everything. But in such a database, not everything needs to be normalized. There are data that are needed by the program, as UPC, that must be correct. But an error in an overview has no importance for the structure of the database. It gets importance just to avoid ping-ponging, and this phenomena had much influence making rules so precise, and so complicated. On another hand, each data that can be a link between different profiles needs some normalization (names of cast/crew, studios...).
Detailed rules associated with a vote on conformity to rules avoid pingponging, but are difficult to be used by thousands of users speaking different languages.
I really think that rules should be much more simple, normalize only what must be normalized, and that the vote system should be on "yes, it is an interesting change", or "no, it is not worth to change the online profile for just that". And the majority wins, votes being anonymous to avoid bickering between angry users. And those simplier rules should be translated, with a place on the site where we can find them easily.
Before putting a lot of energy in a system that may not work better than now, wouldn't be interesting to think about the kind of rules and voting system we need ? | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | There are plenty of people I would trust to moderate. Kathy and Martian come to mind. |
| | Registered: May 9, 2008 | | Posts: 467 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Anyway, I still have a big problem with the rules as they are, because they are complicated, long, and with no translation in different languages that make non-english speaking people out of the play. I would have to disagree with that except the translation as I can not comment on that. Compared to most things I deal with in both data management and development the rules for DVDP are simple and not long. |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
Quoting Woola:
Quote:
It is unrealistic
It's not even close to unrealistic to want better customer service for your money.
No one is asking for daily, weekly, monthly or even bi-monthly updates to the rules. That's not the point at all. The point is, that when the rules NEED updating, they SHOULD be updated. Some poor new user shouldn't have people trampling all over him with no votes because he followed the rules, but there was a post seven months ago that's now hidden on the 21st page of the contribution forum that revised those rules, but the revision was never entered into the official rules. Getting the rules updated on a regular basis when they need to be is not an unrealistic goal to want to achieve.
The point is, that when a thread reaches page 17 of absolutely nothing productive because everyone's screaming at each other and calling each other names over something silly like the parsing of someone's name, that a simple post to clarify from someone that is able to clarify, SHOULD be given (preferrably, if Ken does as he says and reads every thread on the boards, before the s**t starts to fly). That's not an unrealistic goal to want to achieve either.
No one's asking for the world. We're asking for baby steps. Not in the least bit unrealistic. Agreed. Perfectly worded and hit the nail on the head. I'll just come out and say it. If this is indeed not a matter of lack of time but of not wanting to update the rules (as Skip alluded), then that is lackluster customer support on the part of Invelos, pure & simple. On a regular basis I see very constructive, useful and interesting ideas and suggestions posted in the rules update section ... but nothing happens with it On a semi-regular basis I see Ken or Gerri stepping in after much bickering in the forums, to make a simple ruling that clarifies the issue ... and it disappears to the bottoms of the forums, lost in heaps of meaningless quibble. That is not a way to give clear instructions to contributors. The community is the strongest asset of this software but it is also a living, breathing thing. If you don't give it the care and attention it needs, it might fizzle out. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
| | Registered: September 3, 2008 | | Posts: 34 |
| | Posted: | | | | I fully support this as well. If you take a moment to think of all the people (myself included) that have given up on contributing because of the bizarre and seemingly often changing "rules" that show up in pages and pages of misleading forum posts that might come back and put an effort in if they were given a clear direction from someone who actually works for the site, it could be huge. The database would improve tremendously. | | | What James Knows
HorrorTalk |
| | Registered: December 16, 2007 |  Posts: 926 |
| | Posted: | | | | Still, it's relatively easy. Just contribute by using the disc and text on the case. Add Studios from opening- and end credits. Add Crew & Cast from opening- and end credits. Cast consists of ACTORS, not Stuntmen or Puppeteers or whatever even if they are listed with the Actors. I bet they have their own unions. Cast is easy, that's why nonsensical discussions about puppeteers are not necessary. Crew can be a bit tough, but when in doubt just ignore them. Nobody will lie awake about some missing Recordist. And now back to the warm butt of eh...  | | | | Last edited: by railroaded |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | James:
The Rules aren't hard at all. You can get caught up in various bits of minutiae. But the core of the Rules is that everything is based on REAL data, that which every user can see, and as it actually appears. It really is very simple, no matter those who like to complain about their complexity, they really raeel aren't.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
James:
The Rules aren't hard at all. You can get caught up in various bits of minutiae. But the core of the Rules is that everything is based on REAL data, that which every user can see, and as it actually appears. It really is very simple, no matter those who like to complain about their complexity, they really raeel aren't.
Skip There not complex there just not clear. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Je suis désolé d'insister, mais tant que les règles de contribution ne seront pas traduites, vous ne pouvez pas espérer que les utilisateurs qui ne parlent pas l'anglais les comprennent mieux que vous ne comprenez vous-même ce texte si vous ne parlez pas français. Et pour vous il s'agit de trois lignes à traduire, pour les règles, ce sont vingt et une pages imprimées. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting FilmAlba: Quote:
Quoting Woola:
Quote:
James:
The Rules aren't hard at all. You can get caught up in various bits of minutiae. But the core of the Rules is that everything is based on REAL data, that which every user can see, and as it actually appears. It really is very simple, no matter those who like to complain about their complexity, they really raeel aren't.
Skip
There not complex there just not clear. While, in my opinion, Alba, they are very clear the majority of time. Are they perfect, no and they never will be. Most of the problems come from users who want to apply some interpretation for themselves without understanding the fundamental basis of the Rules, or those that simply don't want Rules and simply want to be able to enter whatever they want and to hell with anybody else. Alba, you weren't here in the bad old days, you have absolutely no concept of just how big a mess this Online used to be in and the kind of outrageous updates and constant changes that we used to see. It's easy for you to be critical without any basis in history, but the facts are the Online is light years ahead of where it was, are we there yet, are we where Ken envisions the future of the Program.Oh hell no. Is Disney World perfect, or done, NO, in fact Walt said it himself with the amount of acreage the Company holds the Resor will never be finished and never be perfect, it will evolve endlessly. No difference with this Program, some of the evolution will be dictated by us and some of it will be dictated by Hollywood and their creative crediting, or packaging or evolving products. Do I understand the fundamentals of the rules, the precepts that they are based on, I better and I can try and offer guidance in that area, but if you are one who simply wants things done your way, like some here, then you don't care what the fundamentals are and will always be unhappy since you can't do things YOUR way relative to the Online.<shrugs> What are you, I don't know, i don't know you, I can drraw conclusions based on a very narrow window (your postings) but they are as likely to completely wrong as they are right, so I try not to draw conclusion about any particular users. Even some which I have "known" on these forums for many years, I still don't KNOW them and can not really come to any legitimate conclusions. The Rules aren't hard and in General they are clear. But there are and always will be exceptions to the clarity, but if you understand the fundamental basis under the Rules then you canwork through nearly anything you think is cloudy. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|  | Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is such an amusing thread. Half the people requesting a rewrite are the same people who don't want any rules at all. If you folks were honest, you would just come out and say what's on your mind.
As to forum moderators (i think it was requested on page 2)..... this forum is already over moderated. On the other hand, it is under moderated. The current moderation is backwards and useless. Either jump in and moderate or get out and let threads go where they will.
If Ken truly feels that disagreement is healthy then he should stay out of this playground unless it is to offer his own opinion. | | | | Dan |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
This is such an amusing thread. Half the people requesting a rewrite are the same people who don't want any rules at all. If you folks were honest, you would just come out and say what's on your mind. ???????? Please show where one person who would like clear rules/rule rewrite said they don't want any rules at all. I freely admit I would much rather have IMDB cast and crew submitted, but it's not that huge of a deal as I do it myself and keep it local. Rules are definitely needed. It just so happens that the current ones are a mess. But "...same people who don't want any rules at all." Really?  | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Alien Redrum |
|   | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: No personal attacks. | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: May 9, 2008 | | Posts: 467 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
Quoting Woola:
Quote:
It is unrealistic
It's not even close to unrealistic to want better customer service for your money.
Maybe I have a completely different view on customer service but my though process goes like: 1) Am I paying a monthly subscription fee? No 2) Am I paying a support contract for on-going support? No 3) Am I paying a maintenance contract for new releases? No 4) Was I promised as part of the purchase of the software something I am not getting? No If the answer to either of the first two points above was "Yes" then I would not be happy with what we have. However, for a one time fee of $30 USD I am happy with what is provided. So what customer service should I expect beyond what we are already receiving for what I paid for? What level of service do people expect for what the software costs and the money spent? Tom |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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