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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Parsing: Robin Wright Penn |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
The explanation has been provided, sufeur. I have done so several times. I am NOT going to go through it again. Not necessary to repeat. Just give one of the numerous links, to help us poor ignorants...  | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting FilmAlba: Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Alba:
No database is ever going to be 100% but Imdb is not even close, 60% might be giving them too much credit but i'll go with that. What I do know is that from my own experience, they are the absol;ute WORST I have ever seen.
Skip
I highly doubt it's that bad given we used it on Spot for doing cast and crew lists. It was simple it was streamlined it was as close to perfect as you can get without trying to f everything up to make it even more perfect.
I think that's the problem here is you guys or at least one guy has forgotten the fundamentals and what should be the main focus for this database and contributing to it. In the process of trying to get to this higher perfection you have f up a lot of the good stuff and scared away many who might or have used this program.
Honestly what kind of message do you think it sends when we have page after page with no solid answer on the phrasing of one persons name.
The database is bigger than that so who cares if it's not 100% right. I can most certainly live with a couple of names not phrased right.
The only thing that would perhaps bother me would be the spelling that's it. LOL, you used it on Spot, now there is a ringing endorsement fr54om a dead program., Alba. As I jhave explained many times here IMDb exists inaccuracies and all, if we wanted to clone IMDb then there is really no need for profilert is there. Well Spot was a clone of IMDb and they are GONE. On euser here and this is the point that you completely MISS, says establish a default position to make irt easy for ALL to participate andif something else can be documented fimne. He also recognizes the individuality of people relative to their names, but there are opther users who want to rob that individuality and put everuybody into a box based on their particular culture, with absolutely no basis in FACT. As some have even admitted, no proof, just a guess. That is the kind of game that is played at the fine UK database IMDb, they let their users GUESS and there is no documentary support that is available, just whatever guess works.  This place, as I have said resembles the UN more than anything else, I can even think of, one of the biggest failures in world history. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Quoting FilmAlba:
Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Alba:
No database is ever going to be 100% but Imdb is not even close, 60% might be giving them too much credit but i'll go with that. What I do know is that from my own experience, they are the absol;ute WORST I have ever seen.
Skip
I highly doubt it's that bad given we used it on Spot for doing cast and crew lists. It was simple it was streamlined it was as close to perfect as you can get without trying to f everything up to make it even more perfect.
I think that's the problem here is you guys or at least one guy has forgotten the fundamentals and what should be the main focus for this database and contributing to it. In the process of trying to get to this higher perfection you have f up a lot of the good stuff and scared away many who might or have used this program.
Honestly what kind of message do you think it sends when we have page after page with no solid answer on the phrasing of one persons name.
The database is bigger than that so who cares if it's not 100% right. I can most certainly live with a couple of names not phrased right.
The only thing that would perhaps bother me would be the spelling that's it.
LOL, you used it on Spot, now there is a ringing endorsement fr54om a dead program., Alba. As I jhave explained many times here IMDb exists inaccuracies and all, if we wanted to clone IMDb then there is really no need for profilert is there. Well Spot was a clone of IMDb and they are GONE.
On euser here and this is the point that you completely MISS, says establish a default position to make irt easy for ALL to participate andif something else can be documented fimne. He also recognizes the individuality of people relative to their names, but there are opther users who want to rob that individuality and put everuybody into a box based on their particular culture, with absolutely no basis in FACT. As some have even admitted, no proof, just a guess. That is the kind of game that is played at the fine UK database IMDb, they let their users GUESS and there is no documentary support that is available, just whatever guess works. This place, as I have said resembles the UN more than anything else, I can even think of, one of the biggest failures in world history.
Skip So that's your ringing endorsement for endless threads on how to spell peoples names and other such lunacy that makes contribution here so trying. Also Spot was not a clone of IMDB it was just used as a source of info for mainly cast and crew lists, production dates. If you honestly think IMDB sucks so much go make a site entirely 100% dedicated to creating a definitive flawless online source of cast crew for each film. Seen as you know ohhh so much | | | | Last edited: by ShinyDiscGuy |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Alien Redrum |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Forum Moderator: No Personal Attacks | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | We've too bring up facts, that she doesn't made her maiden name to her middle name, but the supporters of 1/2/3 don't need to bring facts that it is like this.
I understand that it is perhaps not the worst starting position to handle names which are unknown, but is it still the best position to handle names that have 2 and 3 approved as familiar names?
Does anyone know how much women really take her maiden name as middle name? Is it more common to take it as middle name or to let it stay in the last name?
If we would know that the majority is not going to take it as middle name, wouldn't it be the best to to go in such cases to 1//23 until we've facts for 1/2/3? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't believe there really is any way to know what percent of women move it to the middle or keep it part of their last name... or even drop it all together for that matter. At least here in the US there really is no rules for names. Anyone (male or female) can change their name to anything they like... at any time they like.
I personally have seen women I know do it all the different ways mentioned. In my personal experiences... more drop their maiden name all together then anything else. the other 2 options has been fairly evenly split in my experience. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | According to Wikipedia, which cites this article, of women who change their last name at marriage, 95%, about 25% informally use their birth surname as a middle name. That means 75% of the women, who change their last name at marriage, will be parsed '1/ /2', when they drop their maiden name, or '1/ /23', when they don't...assuming my math is correct. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
.... At least here in the US there really is no rules for names. Anyone (male or female) can change their name to anything they like... at any time they like.
... This makes it even more harder to parse the US names correct.  I'm really interested to hear some more experiences.  With the experiences of Addicted2DVD we would get on both ways a 50/50-chance, no matter how we parse such names, to be correct. If the article TheMadMartian contributed is correct it would be better to go with 1//23, so the mistake would be 25%. ... Btw, I also don't think we get the correct percentage, but a direction would be enough (imho) to have a direction of using one starting point. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
We've too bring up facts, that she doesn't made her maiden name to her middle name, but the supporters of 1/2/3 don't need to bring facts that it is like this.
I understand that it is perhaps not the worst starting position to handle names which are unknown, but is it still the best position to handle names that have 2 and 3 approved as familiar names?
Does anyone know how much women really take her maiden name as middle name? Is it more common to take it as middle name or to let it stay in the last name?
If we would know that the majority is not going to take it as middle name, wouldn't it be the best to to go in such cases to 1//23 until we've facts for 1/2/3? Virus: TYhat's because it is not based upon culture, it is merely a starting point. Everyone else is talking about "no, i don't want to do that because it's not my culture." A START POINT, nothing more, nothing less. I have provided first hand knowledge, I have in the past even allowed that it may be something that is generational, which would totally screw up the cultural argument. I have further explained that in some cases women will go with a double barrelled MIDDLE name, retaining their given middle and moving the maiden to the middle. It is not a cultural thing, it is the choice of the woman. We have even seen that as much as some people want to claim cultur, it does NOT washh as there are females which have middle names in , say the UK, just like they do in the US. Again , I say this is not about some arcane cultural norm, I can't call it a cultural Rule. There are apparently country(ies) which do have some actual laws about names, but these are rare indeed. Again let me reiterate, it is not about culture at all, it is simply the simplest starting point and the most neutral starting point. While ther will be exceptions to everything, generally speaking there will be some relatively easy way to document 1/2/3...1//23 than the reverse. Typically with lesser known personalities the only way to justify a move from 1//23 to 1/2/3 would be if we had some card that they had filled out somewhere that documented a middle name, it's not something that are you just going to spontaneously locate, like a hyphenated name. Now as I noted relative to BFI and the German source, do they know something, or are they robotically applying the hyphen because in their culture "it is the thing to do", like so many here seem to do. I acn't tell, because they don't provide any backup documentation, all I have to go on with RWP is a 26 year career in TV and film in which she has ONE credit that reads RW-P, just oe, all of the remaining credits after her marriage and up to her divorce read RWP. But, ALSO as has been noted the CLT does not parse the name R/W/P=R//WP as far as the CLT is concerned. And please take note that i have not said what I THINK is correct regarding this actor, or any other because my opinion has no relevance outside of my local, and maybe not even there. I deal with data, I try very hard to not let it be colored by personal opinions or beliefs, I look for the easiest solution that allows us to enter data consistently, yet allows for changes if they can be documented. Not unlike taking the initial runtime from back cover, BUT if you find that the REAL runtime is different then document it and make the change. Thisis because I recognize that if we do not have consistent data entry, everybody does their own thing, then we will never be able to create a linking that functions as Ken designed. The other possibility , and preferable in my book, would be for Ken to redesign the linking system so that is not based upon users entering data consistently. One of the beauties of the simple association is that there is no priority name or correct name, we need a way to share the associations and we could have RP=R/WP=R/W-P+R//WP quite easily and they would all be seen equally by the Program and no matter which entry you searched you would get the same list of movies. But this is something that I cannot do, Ken has to. As long as we have the linking system which we have then it is critical for all data to start at the same place and then document the changes. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
We've too bring up facts, that she doesn't made her maiden name to her middle name, but the supporters of 1/2/3 don't need to bring facts that it is like this.
I understand that it is perhaps not the worst starting position to handle names which are unknown, but is it still the best position to handle names that have 2 and 3 approved as familiar names?
Does anyone know how much women really take her maiden name as middle name? Is it more common to take it as middle name or to let it stay in the last name?
If we would know that the majority is not going to take it as middle name, wouldn't it be the best to to go in such cases to 1//23 until we've facts for 1/2/3?
Virus:
TYhat's because it is not based upon culture, it is merely a starting point. Everyone else is talking about "no, i don't want to do that because it's not my culture." A START POINT, nothing more, nothing less.
Skip Absolutely agree. But I hope you could understand what I wrote. A starting point 1/2/3 is great as standard starting point for all names. That means all "2" that can't be clearly defined to 2 or 3. Means part of names which can be a given name or a familiar name. But as it is in this case Wright and Penn are both familiar names, perhaps it could be better to go on with 1//23 as second step / second starting point. To give clear evidences that the maiden name is used as middle name is hard. And giving facts that she didn't use her maiden as middle name is the same hard. It was just an idea to give a possibility to see it from another side and perhaps to minimize the mistakes. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
But I hope you could understand what I wrote. Hope, hope... Anyway, there is no reason to decide that 1/2/3 is better (or worse) than 1//23 as a starting point. After that, it depends on each users' movies collections. With mainly US actors/actresses, 1/2/3 will be very often correct. With mostly french actors, 1/2/3 will be wrong quite every time. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Upon what basis, Virus. Because Wright is a maiden name. As has been explained this may or may not have any validity. The only reason for it is because in much of the Euro community it IS commonplace for women to do 1//23, I will however wager that it is not universal, perhaps closer to it in Euro than it is the States but so what, we need A SINGLE start point. If you want to deviate from it, even in an initial contribution then it falls to you to document why you deviate from it.
I don't comprehend why it is so difficult to grasp. This is literally as clear as the nose on my face, to me and doesn't to go on and on for page after. The only argument that I have seen about this is ALWAYS abouit culture, it is never simply about the data and/or why it is not easier to verify 1/2/3 to 1//23 than it is 1//23 to 1/2/3. The ONLY to verify the latter change, the ONLY way, will be find some article somewhere that refers to Mr. Jones, this is only one of several possible approaches to documenting the former. We aren't going to have access to ANY forms, like a Driver's license application, where the person has to fill out First/Middle/Last.
As I read your idea, Virus, it is no different from where we are right now. You are making a provision for what you THINK is a maiden name, without documentation of why 1//23 is correct, it is simply a guess. It is not a starting point and it has to affect ALL actors, let's remember that 1//23 can apply to males as well as females.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
But I hope you could understand what I wrote.
Hope, hope...
Anyway, there is no reason to decide that 1/2/3 is better (or worse) than 1//23 as a starting point. After that, it depends on each users' collections. With mainly US actors, 1/2/3 will be very often correct. With mostly french actors, 1/2/3 will be wrong quite every time. LOL, how typical. Essentially we don't need no stinking starting point. We don't care about linking, we just want to be able to do what we want. In short, Yves, you cannot present an argument. It is exactly that attitude that will forever keep the current linking system BROKEN. I see you just lack the ability to deal with the data, Yves, you are still dragging culture into it. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
But I hope you could understand what I wrote.
Hope, hope...
Anyway, there is no reason to decide that 1/2/3 is better (or worse) than 1//23 as a starting point. After that, it depends on each users' collections. With mainly US actors, 1/2/3 will be very often correct. With mostly french actors, 1/2/3 will be wrong quite every time. For men, yes. For married women who use their maiden name, statistically speaking, no. For what it's worth, before I get accused otherwise, I am in favor of a '1/2/3' starting point unless it can be documented otherwise...I just have a different standard for documentation. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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