Well,

if the screeners will accept anything anyways according to chinese name parsing, this whole debate is pretty useless and should stop now 

xradman,

I would either parse is Chow/Yun-fat or Yun-fat/Chow

T!M,

ahh I understand now, that is not good

cheers
Donnie

Quoting xradman:

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Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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Quoting DarklyNoon:

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Pete,
if every contribution which dealt with chinese correcting of name parsing that was made within the last year (at least all the ones I know of, and that were hundreds and hundreds), got approved by the Screeners, I would see a direction there.
Why would the screeners approve all those contributions , if they do not agree with them ? And again we are not talking about 5-10 contributions, we are talking about hundreds here 

I didn't say they did or didn't agree... I said per rules it is neither right nor wrong. Since Ken hasn't publicly (that I seen) decided how to do it. So I would ask you... if the screeners got no direction from the rules or from Ken & Gerri why wouldn't they approve it? But at the same time why wouldn't they approve any other way... after all they got no direction on any certain way it should be. So if the contributor submits it a certain way... and the majority voters seems to either like it or not care one way or the other.. why would they decline it... so of course they were getting approved.  But that does not automatically make it Invelos's decision on how to handle Asian names. Especially when we have on record Ken saying that there has been no decision for Asian names yet.

My recollection of that thread was that Ken agreed that his intention for the last name field was to be used for family name.  Synner man then stepped in and said that that would be too much work and he would stop all contribution if that were to be included in the rules.  Ken then posted that current parsing rule was not to be applied for Asian names yet.  That is the last I know of for anything official regarding Asian names.  I will try to find the exact quotes.

Found it.  It was in the David Ogden Stires thread.  Start around page 9 and read forward.

Ken's Statement on Parsing Asian Names

Quote:
Surname is the intent.  If that will result in less confusion, it's an easy change for the next release.  The CLT does not parse names since it doesn't use the name field, only the display name.  So, in the case of an entry with Credited As, it uses that.  Without a Credited As entry it uses the full display name.

Note that the issue of Asian name parsing remains open.

There it is a quote from Ken just last year saying Asian name parsing remains open.

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting Alien Redrum:

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If I'm to read your reply correctly, parsing is now (or will soon be) a non-issue, anyway?

Not at all, unfortunately. The program change helps when accepting updates where a name is parsed differently then in your local database, but when contributing the problems are still as they always were. If I choose to have A/B/C and the online profile has A//B C, then that change will be included as part of the contribution. When I want to add three missing cast members, but can't "document" the parsing change, the only way I can contribute is if I change the entry locally, then contribute, and then change it back (possibly for multiple names). All in all, it's certainly not a non-issue... 

This is where I am hoping Ken does what he said he could do with the filter  when you contribute.... making parsing ignored for contributions unless you check a box...

Quoting Ken Cole: (Rules Committee Forum)

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Quoting m.cellophane:

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Very nice!  Can you get the contribution system to ignore parsing differences unless we check a box, as with uncredited?

That could be arranged.

Donnie:

i have been sitting on this one for several days, frankly because the whole discussion wears me out. but, mi amigo, you teed me off., with your little remark about american cutlture. So let me try to explain it again since you clearly don't understand. 

There is NO culture of any kind inviolved here, other thasn that provided by the Cast/Crew listings. we are tryiing to duplicate the appearance of the credit against the the film , not any cultural norm. For example IF John Wayne were to appear in a Chinese Martial Arts film and his credit read Wayne John, I would tell you you are wrong to try and list him as John Wayne, that would not be the way the credit reads. Now if you could document that Wayne John =John Wayne then you could clearly use the CLT. But to paraphrase Ken himself we are after the credited name not necessarily the CORRECT name. Do you understand this now, I hope, it has NOTHING to do with ANY culture from anywhere, the culture is simply dictated by the APPEARANCE of the credits themselves PERIOD.

God, this thing makes me tired.

Skip

Skip,

this is not about deciding whether to enter Wayne/John or John/Wayne.

This is about middle names, and the credit does not tell you that. The credit would for example read:
John Michael Wayne.

And here the culture comes in place, as John Michael Wayne is an american citizen I/we/everyone should/would enter it John/ Michael/Wayne.

If we have a chinese actor in the credits, for example:
Chow Yun Fat or Yun Fat Chow

You only have one option to enter those two as he is a Chinese/Hong Kong citizen and therefore has no middle name, that is where the culture comes at hand.

So in the first example you would enter:
Chow // Yun Fat
and in the second one:
Yun Fat // Chow

and then check what the most credited is and use the CLT.

But you cannot enter him Yun/ Fat/Chow or Chow/Yun/Fat

P.S. I know that John Wayne has no middle name , it was just an example 

cheers
Donnie

Perhaps you should keep your snide comments to yourself for a change.

Skip

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Donnie:

If he is credited as Yun Fat Chow the3n that is what you would enter, but i have only seen him credited as Chow YuN Fat. Ire peat it's about credits NOT about culture. Get it.

Yes, you credit him as Chow Yun fat, but is it Chow/Yun/Fat or Chow//Yun Fat.

It is not an argument of what to contribute, it is an argument about how to parse.

Charlie:

If it were only that easy.

Donnie: NO it is not, it was never intended to be and it is not the only ones making it about culture is people like you. It's about the credits and how they read, then you want to make insulting remarks about culture. Butit is merely based on the way the credit reads and that Profiler is trying to replicate that appearance, not the culture, the ON SCREEN appearance. You are the one trying to complicate things and make it about culture. On Screen you SEE Chow Yun Fat, you do NOT SEE Yun Fat Chow, as far as I am concerned you can use the CLT to capture your cultural desires, but ultimately as long as it looks as it appears On Screen  THAT is what Profiler wants to see.Once again, and for the last time because i know what some others are going to attempt to say, you aren't in the position to KNOW that, I AM and frankly I wish I weren't. But culture only exists in your mind, it does NOT exist On Screen.

What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat. It is very simple and requires NO special knowledge on the part of ANY user. For one thing, we are not the person who the name belongs to  and we cannot KNOW exactly what any given parsing situation should be, we can make assumptions (usually based upon culture, but THAT does not mean that assumption is CORRECT), that is why I always take the simplest route, it has nothing to do with my cultural knowledge, just what is easiest for the each and EVERY user to execute EVERY TIME without requiring them to possess anything in parrticular in the way of knowledge. The concept was Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS), not to try and create a maze of information which would ultimately make data entry difficult  at best

Skip

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Charlie:

If it were only that easy.

Donnie: NO it is not, it was never intended to be and it is not the only ones making it about culture is people like you. It's about the credits and how they read, then you want to make insulting remarks about culture. Butit is merely based on the way the credit reads and that Profiler is trying to replicate that appearance, not the culture, the ON SCREEN appearance. You are the one trying to complicate things and make it about culture. On Screen you SEE Chow Yun Fat, you do NOT SEE Yun Fat Chow, as far as I am concerned you can use the CLT to capture your cultural desires, but ultimately as long as it looks as it appears On Screen  THAT is what Profiler wants to see.Once again, and for the last time because i know what some others are going to attempt to say, you aren't in the position to KNOW that, I AM and frankly I wish I weren't. But culture only exists in your mind, it does NOT exist On Screen.

What I know about any countries culture is not relevant, Donnie. I come from a simple position because it is EASIEST for ALL users to execute EVERY TIME without fail. IF I see Chow Yun Fat or any other such name I use a basic three name parsing. If I see Chow Yun-Fat then that is two name parsing and adds data to support the use of Chow //Yun Fat. It is very simple and requires NO special knowledge on the part of ANY user. For one thing, we are not the person who the name belongs to  and we cannot KNOW exactly what any given parsing situation should be, we can make assumptions (usually based upon culture, but THAT does not mean that assumption is CORRECT), that is why I always take the simplest route, it has nothing to do with my cultural knowledge, just what is easiest for the each and EVERY user to execute EVERY TIME without requiring them to possess anything in parrticular in the way of knowledge. The concept was Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS), not to try and create a maze of information which would ultimately make data entry difficult  at best

Skip

Skip,

the problem is, you do not read my posts as you often do not read other people posts.
But I am tired to explain it the third time.
Just read my previous post again and you shall see that everything you wrote in your following post is totally off-topic.

But, i just changed my mind, maybe it helps if I say it a third time.

It is NOT, and I repeat NOT about either Chow Yun Fat OR Yun Fat Chow

It is about the MIDDLE name, I repeat, the MIDDLE NAME.

so, I am just trying to explain to you that:
Chow/Yun/Fat is as wrong as Fat/Yun/Chow, let me repeat, both is WRONG.

Now we come again to the CORRECT parsing:
if the ON SCREN credit reads Chow Yun Fat, the only way to parse it CORRECTLY is:
Chow // Yun Fat

And why do we do this ?
Yes kids, we do this because a middle name does not exist in chinese culture, therefore, for the last time it is WRONG to enter it as:
Cho / Yun / Fat, repeat , it is WRONG.

CORRECT is:
Chow // Yun Fat if the on screen credit say Chow Yun Fat.

I hope my step by step explanation has got thru to you now, in case you bothered to actually read what I typed, before replying again totally off topic.

cheers
Donnie