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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ...9  Previous   Next
Blade Runner
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Perhaps it would be a good idea  to be able to capture those aspects, Martian, personally I amundecided because I keep asking myself why do we need 5 Profiles for the same movie in one box, how much of that extra datais really of interest. I can make the case you don't need to, it more of rhetorical comment and i don't really have an opinion...yet. But as to the rules as noted, the intent of the Rule is very clear by the inclusion of a very specific example for a very specific function. Meaning different versions of the same title, but different movies...not the SAME TITLE and SAME MOVIE with all the same data. Francis X. Bushman was not in the Heston Ben-Hur.

The other question about this specific example is what should we do, anything, it remains, I believe a release that is unique, I can't think of any other film which has been granted the grandiose treatment of Blade Runner. It is one of...so far. Shhhh say that softly, we don't want the moguls getting ideas. This is one title about which i am undecided because of its, to date, uniqueness, and i have yet to see an argument which has persuaded me that we NEED to have five different Profiles (children) which contain the same data or nearly the same in each film. Since mine is in storage, is the Cast data substantially different among any of the versions, what are the crew differences if any.<shrugs> I don't know.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
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Registered: June 12, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Since mine is in storage, is the Cast data substantially different among any of the versions, what are the crew differences if any.<shrugs> I don't know.

Cast differences? Yes.  Substantially different?  A matter of opinion.

At a glance at least one cast member is added to the "Final Cut" relative to the Theatrical/Director's cuts.  And another actor is credited differently between the two (Hy Pike/Hy Pyke).

And at least one crew member's credited name changed between the discs.

One disc has multiple Commentaries, the others none.

And then there is the Workprint edition with no credits at all except Harrison Ford.
Bad movie?  You're soaking in it!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Since mine is in storage, is the Cast data substantially different among any of the versions, what are the crew differences if any.<shrugs> I don't know.

Cast differences? Yes.  Substantially different?  A matter of opinion.

At a glance at least one cast member is added to the "Final Cut" relative to the Theatrical/Director's cuts.  And another actor is credited differently between the two (Hy Pike/Hy Pyke).

And at least one crew member's credited name changed between the discs.

One disc has multiple Commentaries, the others none.
Hmmmm.

Skip
And then there is the Workprint edition with no credits at all except Harrison Ford.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea  to be able to capture those aspects, Martian, personally I amundecided because I keep asking myself why do we need 5 Profiles for the same movie in one box, how much of that extra datais really of interest. I can make the case you don't need to, it more of rhetorical comment and i don't really have an opinion...yet. But as to the rules as noted, the intent of the Rule is very clear by the inclusion of a very specific example for a very specific function. Meaning different versions of the same title, but different movies...not the SAME TITLE and SAME MOVIE with all the same data. Francis X. Bushman was not in the Heston Ben-Hur.

I don't know why we need 5 profiles for the same movie, but they aren't really the same move, they are different versions of the same movie.  Small distinction, I know, but a distinction none the less.  Beyond that, it can be done without a program change and it can be done without causing those that don't want these profiles any difficulties.  Because of that, I don't see the issue.

Quote:
The other question about this specific example is what should we do, anything, it remains, I believe a release that is unique, I can't think of any other film which has been granted the grandiose treatment of Blade Runner. It is one of...so far. Shhhh say that softly, we don't want the moguls getting ideas. This is one title about which i am undecided because of its, to date, uniqueness, and i have yet to see an argument which has persuaded me that we NEED to have five different Profiles (children) which contain the same data or nearly the same in each film. Since mine is in storage, is the Cast data substantially different among any of the versions, what are the crew differences if any.<shrugs> I don't know.

As I understand it, this is not unique.  Brazil, I believe, had a similar release, as did Close Encounters of the Third Kind: 30th Anniversary.  Even if it were unique, I don't know that it matters.  Whether we 'need' individual profiles, well, that is a personal choice.  But, as I said earlier, it hurts nobody to have them and helps those that do.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
As I understand it, this is not unique.  Brazil, I believe, had a similar release, as did Close Encounters of the Third Kind: 30th Anniversary.  Even if it were unique, I don't know that it matters.  Whether we 'need' individual profiles, well, that is a personal choice.  But, as I said earlier, it hurts nobody to have them and helps those that do.


Dawn of the Dead did, as well.

I personally prefer to have these child profiles in the system because, using Dawn of the Dead as an example, there are three different cuts. Joe Pilato is in one of the cuts, but not another. Argento edited one of the cuts, but not the others.

They may be cuts of the same film, sure, but the Cannes cut of the film has a totally different vibe than the Argento cut of the film.

I think maybe tomorrow I'll make child profiles for my local.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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"E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial: Ultimate Gift Set" contains the 1982 and 2002 versions of the film.

I'm sure there are actually quite a few of these out there.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Not to the extreme of Blade Runner, guys. Extended Cuts and Theatrical are nothing new or unususal, but never something like this one. The closest that comes to mind, i think was CE3K, which iuf memory serves included three different versions, but FIVE.

Skip
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Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 762
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Gerri has stated that it is o.k. to create child profiles, for the DVD version, of the same exact film that is included with a Blu-ray release.  If the bonus DVD qualifies as a bonus feature film, why wouldn't these? 

Now you are trying to create an apple from an orange, my friend. A combo is two different MEDIA with different aspects belonging to each. Blade runner is multiple copies of the SAME film on the SAME media.

Skip

If it were the same film, why have multiple copies?  Oh yea, because they aren't the same film.  They are different versions of the same film...with different run times, sometimes extra cast, crew and different audio.  Don't we want to capture those different aspects as well?  Whether it be different versions of the same film, or the same exact film on a different media, they should be treated the exact same way.

Beyond that, let's look at the rules for a minute:

"The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film."  Note it does not say, "more than one unique film".  Each disc in these sets contains a film, by the definition in the rules, they could be turned into Box Sets.

The term "Bonus Feature Film" is used to define any feature film that is included as part of the bonus material for a single release.  Note it says ANY feature film, not a different feature film.  The discs included in these sets contain feature films, by the definition in the rules, bonus feature film profiles can be created.  Yes, I know the argument, the examples used are not similar to these sets.  Unfortunately, the use of the word 'some', makes that argument fail.

The way I see it, we have two choices...turn them into Box Sets, stripping all the data from the parent, or create bonus feature film profiles like we do with TV Series sets.  The latter makes the most sense as it should make both camps happy.

Edit: I see hal beat me to it and it seems we are on the same page.



My thoughts exactly!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Registered: August 23, 2008
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Not to the extreme of Blade Runner, guys. Extended Cuts and Theatrical are nothing new or unususal, but never something like this one. The closest that comes to mind, i think was CE3K, which iuf memory serves included three different versions, but FIVE.

Skip


IMO, there shouldn't be special circumstances. Blade Runner has five. Dawn of the Dead has 3. ET has 2. Who cares. If you are going to allow one, you should allow all.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Not to the extreme of Blade Runner, guys. Extended Cuts and Theatrical are nothing new or unususal, but never something like this one. The closest that comes to mind, i think was CE3K, which iuf memory serves included three different versions, but FIVE.

Skip

I am trying to figure out why the number makes any difference.  Whether it be 2 or 10 versions, we should treat them all the same way.  Bonus Feature Film profiles seem to be the best way as they give both sides...the want child profiles and the don't want them...exactly what they want.

Edit:  I see Alien beat me to it and had the same exact thought.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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It still does not change the clear intent of the Rule, which had nothing to do with multiple cuts of the same film.Should this be considered a Bonus Film (or any like it), I don't know, but it clearly at this time is technically outside of the rules. The tack of the arguments being takebn is not at all persuasive in any sense of the word. I am completely open-minded on this, but the arguments are trying to slip in an imaginary loophole, which is pretty clearly outside of the example clearly delineated by the Rules. First instead of showing any understanding of what i was saying specifically about Blade Runner, the usual demeaning argument of let's bring up examples to discredit him, and all you discredit was yourselves or failing to grasp the argument. Come on guys, I am open-minded, i have no opinion and have looked for an answer to this since the day it was announced, but I am not seeing anything persuasive...attempts to discredit and attempts to create a loophol;e is all i see. And there ARE ramifications here, as has been noted why should we not treat every multiple verison with children, how many Profiles do we require of CE3K, ET, T2, Alien or any other such film, do we suddenly start creating Child profiles for EVERY one of them. My own argument is leading away from your premise, but I am trying to remain open on this because I really don't know so somebody anybody give me something I can sink my teeth into...at least those that I have left.

Skip          
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
It still does not change the clear intent of the Rule, which had nothing to do with multiple cuts of the same film.Should this be considered a Bonus Film (or any like it), I don't know, but it clearly at this time is technically outside of the rules.

Skip



Sip you have to admit that this is only clear to people that were involved in making the rules. Users, like myself, who are reading the rules as they are right now, don't know the intend, they read the rules as they are and whatever the intend was isn't in the rules as you see it. It nowhere says that a "bonus film" has to be different than the main feature. It's that simple. You always ask people not to add to the rules but in this case you add, what was the intention, but it's not a written part of the rule.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Dark:

Not at all. Even were I first-timer, I would read the Rule and the specific example and come to exactly the conclusion that I have explained and that Blade runner does not fit that paramenter.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
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...how many Profiles do we require of CE3K, ET, T2, Alien or any other such film, do we suddenly start creating Child profiles for EVERY one of them.


Why not?

What does it hurt? Those who want them can download them, those who don't won't.

I honestly don't see why this needs to be a big deal, or why anyone would be passionately against it.
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTheDarkKnight
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Dark:

Not at all. Even were I first-timer, I would read the Rule and the specific example and come to exactly the conclusion that I have explained and that Blade runner does not fit that paramenter.

Skip


I am sorry but those are not specific examples. The rules say: "Some examples of Bonus Feature Films are:". This clearly says that the given examples are only some and not the only kind of bonus film. There is no way the wording "some" can be understood as "specific".
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
...how many Profiles do we require of CE3K, ET, T2, Alien or any other such film, do we suddenly start creating Child profiles for EVERY one of them.


Why not?

What does it hurt? Those who want them can download them, those who don't won't.

I honestly don't see why this needs to be a big deal, or why anyone would be passionately against it.


Amen.
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