Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
Have you tried a test contribution, for example of your Charlie and the Chocolate Factory profile?
I'd be interested to know whether the voters and screeners also believe that dividers are "credits".

While my decision is not going to be popular with some I decided to follow northbloke's suggestion and I submitted a couple of profiles with the dividers.

One of them was a totally new profile for an ex-rental title. It was accepted and released. I made no mention of the dividers in my notes.

The other was for an existing profile. It received only YES votes and was accepted and released.
I made a point of starting my contribution notes with a header stating that I was adding these dividers and why I was doing it.

Some of you may ask why I didn't come to this thread and announce that I was submitting these. The answer is simple: I wanted a true result. I didn't want a bunch of people adding the film to their collection simply to vote NO; because doing that doesn't prove anything.

Personally, this proves one of 2 things:
A. The screeners don't see a problem with dividers being used in this manner.
B. The screeners didn't notice the dividers or my note bringing it to their attention.

Whether I shall bother submitting any more is another matter. I merely wanted to see how this would be handled.

Quoting Pantheon:

Quote:
It was accepted and released.

I'm not surprised - I've found time and time again that the opinion of both the screeners and the (bulk of the) voters are the exact opposite of what a few very vocal forum users keep repeating here day in day out. Sometimes it really seems as if most of the sensible users have left these forums long ago...

Having said that, I personally have no interest in using dividers for effects companies in the current set-up. If I were to track these companies somehow, they key point for me would be the ability to link them together, so I could see what films in my collection a certain company worked on. Since these dividers don't link, they'd be of no use to me. Adding to that, this usage is also bound to clash with the "proper" use of dividers sometimes (using them within TV episodes). Now if these concerns could somehow be addressed, then I might be convinced.

Also add to the fact that dividers are already being abused and being used as headers in cast and crew lists anyway.
But to me this doesn't seem like an abuse. The Visual Effects credits are often separated by company, and dividers are supposed to be used to show separate credit lists. If the headers didn't include company names there probably wouldn't even be a debate - nobody would argue about using a divider to separate restoration crew from the rest, and very often they are presented in a very similar way to visual effects crew.

Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
Also add to the fact that dividers are already being abused and being used as headers in cast and crew lists anyway.
But to me this doesn't seem like an abuse. The Visual Effects credits are often separated by company, and dividers are supposed to be used to show separate credit lists. If the headers didn't include company names there probably wouldn't even be a debate - nobody would argue about using a divider to separate restoration crew from the rest, and very often they are presented in a very similar way to visual effects crew.

I agree with that.  I just did an audit on 'Horton Hears a Who'.  All of the sound was done by 'Skywalker Sound'.  That information should be included in the crew credits...at least I think it should.

Quoting Pantheon:

Quote:
I'm resurrecting this thread to see if Ken/Gerri could give their opinion on this issue hopefully.

Since this thread ran its course I submitted 'test cases' and all were accepted.

Since then I have been submitting profiles with these dividers and they have been accepted 100% (these have primarily been Region 2 profiles).

Now I have submitted a couple of Region 1 titles with dividers and they are receiving NO votes. I don't have a problem with the no votes; but I would like some clarification if possible.

I obviously don't want to continue to do something that Invelos don't want done; but because they have all been accepted I'm thinking they're ok - and if that's the case then all regions should be working from the same page.

This is not an attempt to re-open this discussion.
So...all I want to know is whether Invelos have a problem with using dividers in this way.

Many thanks
Neil

Pantheon,
I think you have a good idea, but I voted against it and this is why.  I read all three pages of this discussion before I decided to post.  I just don't care who fed the animals on a motion picture and that is where I see this going.  We have more information in Profiler than ANY other piece of commercial software.  Now we are adding more.  I am not saying the special effects people and sound people are not important I am saying Unless it is someone I know or know of (am tracking their career) I could care less who the eighth unit director or coloring the clothes on zombie number 16 was.  The reason you have been given little push back on region 2 films is likely because most people who own region 2 films agree or like your idea and just ignored the rules.  You are getting bumped on your region 1 films because the rules are being followed.  I feel the divider rules are VERY well laid out and should be followed as written, past that I think you need to petition for a rule change.  Either way good luck in your endeavors.

Quoting Lord Of The Sith:

Quote:
The reason you have been given little push back on region 2 films is likely because most people who own region 2 films agree or like your idea and just ignored the rules.

On behalf of my fellow R2 users...I find that a little insulting. I realise you don't mean it to be, but it is nonetheless.

Quote:
You are getting bumped on your region 1 films because the rules are being followed.  I feel the divider rules are VERY well laid out and should be followed as written

This is not about anyone breaking the rules deliberately.

As far as I am concerned I am not breaking any contribution rule with these submission.

This is purely about different interpretations of the rules. If two people interpret a rule differently they the rule is obviously not clear.

I'm not listing the companies, ie. I'm not adding Industrial Light and Magic to the crew list and then using them as an entry for Visual Effects.
The statement in the rules is about not adding company names to the crew database. It's against the rules to add, for example, Weta Digital to the crew list and then have the following in a profile:
Weta Digital - Visual Effects

However, there is nothing in the rules that disallows:
Divider: Effects by Weta Digital
Mr. A Smith - Visual Effects

All of the above is why I would like Invelos to give a ruling on this issue to stop either me continuing to submit unwanted information or for people who are voting NO to change their vote accordingly.

We've recently had a very heated discussion on differing interpretations of the rules, and we really don't need another one.

I will obviously stop contributing this information to the online db if Invelos state that it is against the rules.

I personally don't care if they're added or not as Crew doesn't bother me overall. That said, I do appreciate the effort taken for those who do want them.

As has been said by a few people, there is currently nothing in the rules to stop them being entered this way.

The credit table says Incorrect Roles: Studio/Company Names, and this indicates it's NOT OK to include them no matter if they are entered as dividers or not.