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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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Blu-rays and 16x9 |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are mixing up your terminology. There is a difference between resolution and (non)anamorphic. And yes, 4:3 HD content has the black bars on the side hard-coded as to fill a 16 : 9 screen, but that has NOTHING to do with being anamorphic. | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,490 |
| | Posted: | | | | sure it does .. You would never make a regular dvd with 4:3 anamorphic because it is not a letterbox ratio .. But in HD it does play on 16x9 with little distoration if you go to Normal it is squeezed... if you go to full ( with bars) it is full and looks good... Therefore it is not resolution but the lens factor .. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: December 22, 2008 |  Posts: 87 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
when I play non anamorphic (dvd) on my TV it is a square box floating in the center of my TV screen .. ''enhanced'' fills the screen automatically i.e. no stretching no zooming ... HD does this automatically.. why? because it is programmed to be anamorphic or enhanced and since it is all and et all HD no sense in the obvious.. More like, no sense in the sentence...?! *g* Basically the BD has a native output of 16:9, while the DVD has a "native" output of 4:3, except when the "anamorphic" flag is set, stretching the output to 16:9. That's the simplified explaination, why the "anamorphic" or "enhanced" doesn't mean anything on BD, especially not what some people obviously think it means. A different wording might help, there's no need to use the current terminology in an unfitting way. The request, as I understand it, is to be able to filter for discs based on their Output Aspect Ratio, being either 16:9 (BD, DVD "anamorphic") or 4:3 (DVD "non-anamorphic"). Discuss on this basis if you insist to, but don't try to change the terminology. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,490 |
| | Posted: | | | | sounds fair .. but why is (some) " featurettes" on a Blue ray in window box?? | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mithi: Quote:
On CRT-TV, the scanning coil of the tube.
On pixel-based machines a graphic processor. But they "invent" the missing data by interpolation. Please elaborate. on a 4:3 CRT TV, each scanline of the picture on the disc equals one scanline on the screen and uses the whole width when watching a 4:3 DVD, but who says that a 4:3 CRT TV is the default? You could say the same thing of a 16:9 DVD on a 16:9 CRT TV. Unless a pixel-based display is 720x576 (PAL) or 720x480 (NTSC), it's going to have to scale the picture data from the disc no matter what the picture shape is. I don't see how this helps the case that one is the default. In fact, the only displays I've seen with this exact resolution were widescreen EDTV's and higher-end portable DVD players. |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting M_E: Quote:
The request, as I understand it, is to be able to filter for discs based on their Output Aspect Ratio, being either 16:9 (BD, DVD "anamorphic") or 4:3 (DVD "non-anamorphic"). Discuss on this basis if you insist to, but don't try to change the terminology. Yes, exactly. If you want to argue that Blu-ray is 16:9, but not enhanced, the box could just have its name changed to 16:9. |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
sounds fair .. but why is (some) " featurettes" on a Blue ray in window box?? Because they are in standard def, not high-def. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,194 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
sure it does .. You would never make a regular dvd with 4:3 anamorphic because it is not a letterbox ratio .. But in HD it does play on 16x9 with little distoration if you go to Normal it is squeezed... if you go to full ( with bars) it is full and looks good... Therefore it is not resolution but the lens factor .. Technically, 16:9 (1.78:1) is not a letterbox format in HD since that is the standard frame ratio in HD, just as 4:3 is the standard frame ratio in SD. So there is nothing to letterbox and nothing to gain by using anamorphic squeezing, unless the content has an even wider aspect ratio, like 2.35:1. That's roughly 21:9 and some TV manufacturers have realized that this would be a nice frame ratio for watching movies. Unfortunately, since no anamorphic BDs exist in this ratio (or any other ratio for that matter), they are not going to utilize the full vertical screen resolution for the film. It's like those old non-anamorphic widescreen DVDs all over again where you had to zoom to get the full picture size. But that would actually be the only time the words anamorphic and blu-ray would be relevant in the same sentence. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 23, 2011 | | Posts: 462 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Yes, exactly. If you want to argue that Blu-ray is 16:9, but not enhanced, the box could just have its name changed to 16:9. No. Because we have DVD's that are 16:9 Enhanced (anamorphic) and DVD's that are not 16:9 enhanced (not anamorphic). And the difference is huge quality wise. We need this box to separate them. Edit: typo | | | | Last edited: by No-way |
| | Registered: December 22, 2008 | | Posts: 87 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting force: Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Yes, exactly. If you want to argue that Blu-ray is 16:9, but not enhanced, the box could just have its name changed to 16:9.
No. Because we have DVD's that are 16:9 Enhanced and DVD's that are 16:9 non-enhanced. And the difference is huge quality wise. We need this box to separate them. I'm sorry but now you're mixing the "displayed" AR (the "active" frame, opposed to the encoded frame, which is always 4:3 or 16:9) with the output AR. You can encode a 1.78:1 picture into a physical 4:3 frame, and the Output AR is 4:3, while the active/used picture is "16:9" (aka 1.78:1) – that is exactly what letterboxed literarly means, you have hardcoded black bars in all-4:3-frames to make the 1.78:1 picture appear in 16:9 on a 4:3 screen without any zooming or other hardware-sided adaptations. On a 16:9 screen that picture will appear windowframed, because the output AR is 4:3 any your player will add a pillarbox to make the 4:3 frame fit on a 16:9 screen. That is exactly what we are talking about, what seems pretty hard to explain, and what causes so much confusion. The Output AR of a non-enhanced widescreen picture is always 4:3, with your hardware filling out the left and right pillar to fill your 16:9 screen without distortion. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,490 |
| | Posted: | | | | ... and 1:78:1 is indeed letterbox .... if you play back hig def player with a Bd disc to a 4:3 Tv it's letterbox .. The TV can take the signal and convert accordingly .. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,490 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Quoting widescreenforever:
Quote:
sounds fair .. but why is (some) " featurettes" on a Blue ray in window box??
Because they are in standard def, not high-def. Oh.. So you can get standard def onto a BD .. regardless.. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
| | Registered: March 23, 2011 | | Posts: 462 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting M_E: Quote:
Quoting force:
Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Yes, exactly. If you want to argue that Blu-ray is 16:9, but not enhanced, the box could just have its name changed to 16:9.
No. Because we have DVD's that are 16:9 Enhanced and DVD's that are 16:9 non-enhanced. And the difference is huge quality wise. We need this box to separate them.
I'm sorry but now you're mixing the "displayed" AR (the "active" frame, opposed to the encoded frame, which is always 4:3 or 16:9) with the output AR. You can encode a 1.78:1 picture into a physical 4:3 frame, and the Output AR is 4:3, while the active/used picture is "16:9" (aka 1.78:1) – that is exactly what letterboxed literarly means, you have hardcoded black bars in all-4:3-frames to make the 1.78:1 picture appear in 16:9 on a 4:3 screen without any zooming or other hardware-sided adaptations. On a 16:9 screen that picture will appear windowframed, because the output AR is 4:3 any your player will add a pillarbox to make the 4:3 frame fit on a 16:9 screen.
That is exactly what we are talking about, what seems pretty hard to explain, and what causes so much confusion. The Output AR of a non-enhanced widescreen picture is always 4:3, with your hardware filling out the left and right pillar to fill your 16:9 screen without distortion. Yes, I know all that. I'm not mixing anything. It was just a typo. It should be: "Because we have DVD's that are 16:9 Enhanced and DVD's that are not 16:9 enhanced." Or if you will: "Because we have DVD's that are anamorphic and DVD's that are not anamorphic" I thought everybody understood that, but I will edit my previous post. | | | | Last edited: by No-way |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting force: Quote:
Yes, I know all that. I'm not mixing anything. It was just a typo. It should be: "Because we have DVD's that are 16:9 Enhanced and DVD's that are not 16:9 enhanced." Or if you will: "Because we have DVD's that are anamorphic and DVD's that are not anamorphic" I thought everybody understood that, but I will edit my previous post. We have DVDs that use a 16:9 picture matte and DVDs that use a 4:3 picture matte. Blu-ray always uses 16:9 (outside of SD material, which is generally just special features). Why should we group them with the 4:3 DVDs instead of the 16:9? Not that DVD Profiler doesn't use the term"anamorphic," so its meaning is irrelevant. If you are hung up on the word "enhanced," it can be dropped without changed the meaning of anything. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,194 |
| | Posted: | | | | We're not grouping them with anything. DVDs are DVDs and Blu-rays are blu-rays. If you guys can't tell them apart maybe you should set up multiple collections. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | The "16 x 9 Enhanced" checkbox is directly equivalent to "Anamorphic" and "Enhanced for widescreen TVs". It is a feature of the DVD format where video is encoded stretched vertically, which allows for more of the fixed resolution to be used on video information, rather than being wasted encoding black pixels. Some early DVD players were actually incapable of correctly displaying anamorphic DVDs, and some of the ones that did display it "correctly" used really crappy video scaling to do so. For those reasons, some studios refused to release their DVDs as anamorphic. The feature is not available for Blu-rays in DVD Profiler since it is not used for commercial Blu-ray releases. There's no need to anamorphically stretch the video since Blu-ray is capable of 1920x1080 resolution. The word 'Enhanced' in the '16 x 9 Enhanced' checkbox is not superfluous. The checkbox specifically applies to the anamorphic stretching of video on certain (thankfully most) widescreen DVD releases. The wikipedia article gives some good info, and here's another link with example screenshots. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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