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 | Muckl | | That's my common name. |
| Registered: April 9, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 858 |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with most of them although i'd go for Philipp//Baron von Boeselager withou a credited as. If i saw a name like that, and without having any extra info i'd consider Baon just as part of his last name. We're not going for Sasha//Cohen (Sasha Baron Cohen) either are we  But seriously, i think the way i'd do it be the easiest for everyone. Paul |
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| Registered: April 3, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,998 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
I agree with most of them although I'd go for Philipp//Baron von Boeselager withou a credited as. If i saw a name like that, and without having any extra info i'd consider Baon just as part of his last name. We're not going for Sasha//Cohen (Sasha Baron Cohen) either are we
But seriously, i think the way i'd do it be the easiest for everyone.
Paul I wasn't sure (Why i asked  ) but as some have said it is part of his name but others posted it was a honorific so i decided to go that root, i can always change it later if it turns out to be part of his name. Thanks to everyone that posted you have all been a great help  |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
The Question is, should we treat it really as normal name? How many users won't ask and write something "wrong" because they see Baron and think it is a honorific? At the same time, as seen in this threat, there are also people (or maybe just me?  )who just think it's part of his name as the Baron doesn't precede his name. If i saw Baron Philipp von Boeselager i'd use the Honorific rule, if i saw Philipp von Boeselager, Baron of Munich (just making someting up), i'd use the honorific rule. But now, this being in the middle of his name, i'd just presume it's his name. Like the Sasha Baron Cohen example i used. But than again, maybe that's just me, Paul | | | | Last edited: by paulb_99 |
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| Registered: April 4, 2007 | | Posts: 883 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
I don't see why we should have special rules for Germany in this case.
These wouldn't be special rules. The question is, what's the person's name as written in the passport. And in a case like "Philipp Baron von Boeselager" afaik "Baron von Boeselager" is their official surname as written in the passport. Hence it doesn't have anything to do with our honorific rules. It's just a name. | | | | - Jan |
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| Registered: April 4, 2007 | | Posts: 883 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
But I think it isn't wrong to just write Philipp von Boeselager, it is not law to speak or write to him Baron ...
Are you sure? I seem to recall not including Baron when addressing him could be a case of libel. | | | | - Jan |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
No need to make it more complicated than needed for people from other localities (which BTW are by far in the majority). If reality is complicated, we just need help from users that have the knowledge. Putting simple wrong data in the database is not a good solution to help others. Quoting hydr0x: Quote:
The question is, what's the person's name as written in the passport. ... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hydr0x: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
I don't see why we should have special rules for Germany in this case.
These wouldn't be special rules. The question is, what's the person's name as written in the passport. And in a case like "Philipp Baron von Boeselager" afaik "Baron von Boeselager" is their official surname as written in the passport. Hence it doesn't have anything to do with our honorific rules. It's just a name. My point was that this would only apply for German "nobility" (which we pretend not to have anymore), in all other localities that still have nobs, it would clearly be seen as a title and therefore would have to be entered by "credited as". BTW: I wonder what his younger brother or his sister (if he has any) have as last-names. If they are "Baron von Boeselager" too, I'd change my mind. But I seriously doubt that. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
If reality is complicated, we just need help from users that have the knowledge. Putting simple wrong data in the database is not a good solution to help others. And which data would you prefer to enter?? Even the users from Germany can't decide on what might be the correct way. Without seeing the passport of this guy nobody will be able to say what's actually written there. Not that it would actually matter in this case, because for the main database the only name of importance is the "credited as", which doesn't differentiate between first/middle/last name. So before making up data, stay with the data that's in front of you (credits). In the case of the Baron, I'd accept both variants (Phillipp //Baron von Boeselager or Phillipp // von Boeselager [Phillipp Baron von Boeselager]) because neither seems to be incorrect. I'd prefer the second option though, because for me it would fit better into the consistency of the database. But Paul made a very valid point here: Quote:
If i saw Baron Philipp von Boeselager i'd use the Honorific rule,
if i saw Philipp von Boeselager, Baron of Munich (just making someting up), i'd use the honorific rule. But now, this being in the middle of his name, i'd just presume it's his name. So as said before both solutions seem to be acceptable, and in the result don't make any difference. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hydr0x: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
I don't see why we should have special rules for Germany in this case.
These wouldn't be special rules. The question is, what's the person's name as written in the passport. And in a case like "Philipp Baron von Boeselager" afaik "Baron von Boeselager" is their official surname as written in the passport. Hence it doesn't have anything to do with our honorific rules. It's just a name. Hmm, do you really think?! I don't know much Barons, so I can't ask. |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
If i saw Baron Philipp von Boeselager i'd use the Honorific rule, ...
Sorry, for asking, but why? Baron Philipp von Boeselager and Philipp Baron von Boeselager are the same. No nobilities or honorifics, all names. Either using everytime the honorific rule or never. |
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| Registered: April 4, 2007 | | Posts: 883 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
Without seeing the passport of this guy nobody will be able to say what's actually written there. Which is precisely why we have to add it as part of the name. We do not have aristocratic titles anymore so the fact the he uses it alone almost proves it is part of the name. That's the normal case, not the exception. So unless you can prove (by showing his passport) that he's an exception it has to be entered as his name cause that's exactly what it is. Quote:
BTW: I wonder what his younger brother or his sister (if he has any) have as last-names most likely the same as he, Baron von Boeselager... | | | | - Jan | | | | Last edited: by hydr0x |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree, that in the time Valkyre plays it was more common to have something like Baron really in the name, but in the near past i think it got more common to leave this nobilities out of the name. And it would be not impossible that even if a person deleted his nobility from name, he would add it in a movie credit. Btw, the von Boeselagers seem to have left the Baron in the name til now: http://thepeerage.com/p9988.htm |
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| Muckl | | That's my common name. |
| Registered: April 9, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 858 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hydr0x: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
I don't see why we should have special rules for Germany in this case.
These wouldn't be special rules. The question is, what's the person's name as written in the passport. And in a case like "Philipp Baron von Boeselager" afaik "Baron von Boeselager" is their official surname as written in the passport. Hence it doesn't have anything to do with our honorific rules. It's just a name. +1 Quoting hydr0x: Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:
Quote:
Without seeing the passport of this guy nobody will be able to say what's actually written there.
Which is precisely why we have to add it as part of the name. We do not have aristocratic titles anymore so the fact the he uses it alone almost proves it is part of the name. That's the normal case, not the exception. So unless you can prove (by showing his passport) that he's an exception it has to be entered as his name cause that's exactly what it is.
Quote:
BTW: I wonder what his younger brother or his sister (if he has any) have as last-names
most likely the same as he, Baron von Boeselager... +1 As you can also see on VirusPil's linked page, the surname of the female family members is "Baronin von Boeselager". Kind of wierd to have two differenet surnames in one family, but that seems to be just the way it is... | | |
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| Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | And if you look a bit through in the other names, you can also find examples where the nobility was deleted in the name of the newer generations. And btw, the German nobleness was always a bit weird. |
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| Muckl | | That's my common name. |
| Registered: April 9, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 858 |
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