Quoting goblinsdoitall:

Quote:
Oooops,
didn't think about that.
Just contributed a bunch of ADR-group, following the line of this user, there were even some quite well known actors appearing in this list.  Since it already got accepted, I will consequently change this back.

Just one last comment:
Skip, wasn't it you to tell us that Hollywood gives a f*** about our definitions?
So it's really not for the sake of the discussion, but because I really don't understand it:
Why exactly is someone who is giving a "Voice only"-performance not a member of the cast?
I can still remember the discussion about "appearances" which were credited in the crew section and here it was widely accepted that these should belong to the cast. Where is the difference?

Goblins:

As Neil noted we spelled out what the Cast was in the Rules. We have tried to be somewhat liberal to allow some of the variations that Hollywood displays such as Additional Voices and so forth. However, ADR is not an acting credit, it is a SOUND Dept. credit, as are Foley Editors, one could argue that they are also performers, Stunt people are not included except under a narrow set of circumstances, they also could be argued to be performers.

Simply put this particular user created HIS own interpretation and then tried to force it on everyone, with his sheltering comment "I follow the Rules". His sleight of mind finally was caught and hopefully he spend some time UNDOING the damage he has caused by forcing HIS Rules and HIS preferences on the Online. I for one don't trust his work, and look at it very carefully, and ANYTHING that is edited by him has very little chance of finding its way into MY database, which does indeed follow the Rules as they were intended.

Skip

Quoting DJ Doena:

Quote:
Could you give me a few examples of these ADRs?

From the movie American Beauty:



From the movie Flushed Away:



From the movie Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan:

Quoting Dr Pavlov:

Quote:
Goblins:

As Neil noted we spelled out what the Cast was in the Rules. We have tried to be somewhat liberal to allow some of the variations that Hollywood displays such as Additional Voices and so forth. However, ADR is not an acting credit, it is a SOUND Dept. credit, as are Foley Editors, one could argue that they are also performers, Stunt people are not included except under a narrow set of circumstances, they also could be argued to be performers.

Simply put this particular user created HIS own interpretation and then tried to force it on everyone, with his sheltering comment "I follow the Rules". His sleight of mind finally was caught and hopefully he spend some time UNDOING the damage he has caused by forcing HIS Rules and HIS preferences on the Online. I for one don't trust his work, and look at it very carefully, and ANYTHING that is edited by him has very little chance of finding its way into MY database, which does indeed follow the Rules as they were intended.

Skip

You got me with the "Stunt Performers". 
That's what I understood.
I somewhat lost you on the "acting credit" (probably it's my english), but if I get this correctly then this would mean that any credit for someone not actually appearing on screen (acting) is invalid. Thought this to the end and asked myself: "What might the Voice-checkbox be for?".
So I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding of mine.

Thanks again for the explanation (the one with the Stunt Performers).

Quoting goblinsdoitall:

Quote:

You got me with the "Stunt Performers". 
That's what I understood.
I somewhat lost you on the "acting credit" (probably it's my english), but if I get this correctly then this would mean that any credit for someone not actually appearing on screen (acting) is invalid. Thought this to the end and asked myself: "What might the Voice-checkbox be for?".
So I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding of mine.

Thanks again for the explanation (the one with the Stunt Performers).

If I'm right in my understanding of things here, it's not that they are voice-only actors, it's that their work is listed with the sound department rather than with the cast.

So animated films have a cast list - and those actors are voice only and listed as cast.  Or someone listed as narrator or something similar is possibly a voice only performance.  Had one of those recently myself.  But ADR Voices are listed with the sound department, so are not considered part of the cast, just like those stunt performers.

In all these credits I often read "ADR Voice Casting" above these groups, sometimes I even read "ADR Cast" as a header. So I ask myself: If these aren't "Cast" then why are they casted?

Quoting Daddy DVD:

Quote:
In all these credits I often read "ADR Voice Casting" above these groups, sometimes I even read "ADR Cast" as a header. So I ask myself: If these aren't "Cast" then why are they casted?

Perhaps it is called voice casting because of inertia. ("We've always done it that way")

Perhaps because certain sounds/noises are desired and not just anyone can do it.

And your question works both ways...if they are "cast" why aren't they listed with The Cast?

The ADR group of "actors" is in the Sound Crew section of the credits because they are crew. They might be doing voice over for a piece of film where the audio was not good enough, but they might also be voicing sound effects. There is really no way to tell by looking at the credit exactly what the people listed under ADR actually "voiced." IMO the significance of having a list of 47 (Flushed Away) names all credited as ADR is more than a little worthless. As to the use of the term ADR Voice Casting, well, that would mean those voices were chosen (hired) because of the characteristics of the voice in question. Could be a particularly blood-curdling scream, or a maniacal laughter, but it is still a sound effect, and not a Cast Role they are hired for.

Actors credited outside the full cast list, Peter Jackson's kids in LOTR come to mind, are a different story. They have a role credited, so IMO they are perfectly acceptable to add to the cast list.

I could go either way on Additional Voices listed outside the main cast list. While I can understand the desire to have "every credit for every actor" listed in Profiler, I still don't see a whole lot of added value in knowing that John Doe was an additional voice in any particular film.

Quoting antolod:

Quote:
Casting, well, that would mean those voices were chosen (hired) because of the characteristics of the voice in question. Could be a particularly blood-curdling scream, or a maniacal laughter, but it is still a sound effect, and not a Cast Role they are hired for.

Which is, indeed, what casting is. You've given a few audio-related examples, but it can just as well be a certain menacing look as well. Surely being cast for being able to provide a specific maniacal laughter doesn't change the fact that the person is being cast? That's exactly what casting is: looking for the right person to provide a certain something. Whether that something consists of a "regular", on-screen part with lots of dialogue, a two-second walk-on part with just a menacing look, or to provide a voice-only blood-curdling scream, doesn't matter. The person is still cast to provide just that.

As for it being a sound effect: even if it is, we list those all the time. See my previous example about Frank Welker's multiple "special vocal effects" (and even more obscure) credits. Surely that's a lot less vague than something like "ADR Voices". How come one would qualify for inclusion, while the other would not? It just doesn't make sense.