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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Romanization of Japanese actors & crew |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | I consider myself fairly intelligent with excellent problem solving capabilities. I scored "genius" on three different IQ tests. I know basically squat about the Japanese language. Yet, I found no insult at all. Just sayin'
Skip - I think you're fairly accustomed to being argued with and/or insulted and are seeing attacks and insults where it doesn't exist. |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Taro: Quote:
For those that took my post seriously and didn't take offense, thank you for your input and for reading my post as I intended it. Skip, no offense but I hope we can keep discussing this matter in a constructive, civilized way. Well said. Your post was very informative. I personally hope that this discussion becomes mute with the addition of unicode support but I believe you are on the right track here. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
I consider myself fairly intelligent with excellent problem solving capabilities. I scored "genius" on three different IQ tests. I know basically squat about the Japanese language. Yet, I found no insult at all. Just sayin'
Skip - I think you're fairly accustomed to being argued with and/or insulted and are seeing attacks and insults where it doesn't exist. Doc: I have been saying this for some time. Had other users not to decided to stick their judgemental noses into it, Taro would have apologized, we might have had a back and forth for a little bit and that would have been it. How many times have i see Taro's question over the years...many.  He tripped over his keyboard. We have far too many users who by their own posts clearly did not even comprehend what I was saying , let alone my perceptions or why, yet they felt that could be judgemental. It is that kind of behavior which results in so many useless discussions which are no fun for anyone. I didn't say that taro intended an insult, I don't think he did, that's why I used the example of voice inflection being very important in Japanese, say something with the wrong vocal inflection and zowie, you insulted somebody and didn't mean to.. Now why Wom and eo chose to jump into the middle of something that they clearly had no comprehension of, I could only hypothesize and frankly i don't really care. What i do care about that something that should have died rather quickly was only inflamed by their judgementalism and lack of comprehension. As I have said before this is a two way street, people. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip - Taro did nothing to apologize for. You saw insult where none existed and overreacted. The apology should come from you. | | | | Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | That is your view, Doc and I understand it. But you aren't in my shoes. As far as I am concerned it is now over done with. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
OMG, here we go AGAIN. Let me suggest to you Taro, since you are making a culture based argument and used soem inflammatory language in your post, specifically "which is popular among English-speaking people how don't have an understanding of the Japanese language." That you not only just might be dead wrong, but are IN FACT dead wrong. The culture wwe use is that that is displayed on Screen in exactkly the way it is displayed On screen. (...) We are talking about romanisation here. That is the transformation of Asian (in this case Japanese) characters (those funny symbols we Western people don't understand) into latin characters (ABC...). Therefore what is seen on the screen can't be entered into profiler because it doesn't support those funny looking characters. We are not discussing the parsing of any romanised Asian name into the name fields in this thread (yet). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
(...) we can't handle (...) properly (...) the Germanic alphabet. (...) Please, tell me more about where profiler can't handle the German alphabet. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting W0m6at: Quote:
(...)
To get to the core of it:
1) Should we, as a community, select a preferred romanisation system?
2) If we do, which system do we want?
(...)
Although I don't agree we have to per se, it would be useful.(...) I don't see the point in selecting any specific romanisation system yet. I think we have only a small number of users which are really able to do the romanisation by themselves. Therefore I'm happy with whatever romanised credits I get from the Asian speaking contributors. If however we begin to see romanisation ping-pong, then it might be the right time to choose a favourite romanisation system. |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting W0m6at:
Quote:
(...)
To get to the core of it:
1) Should we, as a community, select a preferred romanisation system?
2) If we do, which system do we want?
(...)
Although I don't agree we have to per se, it would be useful.(...)
I don't see the point in selecting any specific romanisation system yet. I think we have only a small number of users which are really able to do the romanisation by themselves. Therefore I'm happy with whatever romanised credits I get from the Asian speaking contributors. If however we begin to see romanisation ping-pong, then it might be the right time to choose a favourite romanisation system. I agree that it's a minority, but in my case, I have about 400 Japanese DVD's. So as much as possible, I want to enter them into DVD Profiler in such a way that is 'future-proof' so to speak. If later down the road a standard is set for Japanese names and titles, I don't see myself changing all 400 discs (I'll be too busy adding new ones to my collection  ) However, if a standard can't be set right now, then I'll just have to wing it and use the system I personally believe to be the best adapted. I changes need to be made lateron, I hope the community will help then ... | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Therefore I'm happy with whatever romanised credits I get from the Asian speaking contributors. If however we begin to see romanisation ping-pong, then it might be the right time to choose a favourite romanisation system. The problem is as usual, linking. If the same actor is entered in two movies by two different users using different systems, they will not link. I fear this far more than pingponging, which should not be too serious on those titles. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Taro: Quote:
I agree that it's a minority, but in my case, I have about 400 Japanese DVD's. So as much as possible, I want to enter them into DVD Profiler in such a way that is 'future-proof' so to speak. If later down the road a standard is set for Japanese names and titles, I don't see myself changing all 400 discs (...) IMO we should only select a preferred system and not a mandatory one. Therefore your credits will be future proof. If a system will be chosen, then IMO anybody should still be allowed to enter new credits in their personally preferred system. But it would be disallowed to change an existing credit from the standard system into the non standard personally preferred system. This way those few contributors could still choose their own system while ping pong would be prevented. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
|  | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 |  Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | Careful Taro, or we might start swamping you with screenshots, and not being able to read kanji, it'll be EVERYTHING.  Quoting RHo: Quote:
I don't see the point in selecting any specific romanisation system yet. I think we have only a small number of users which are really able to do the romanisation by themselves. Therefore I'm happy with whatever romanised credits I get from the Asian speaking contributors. If however we begin to see romanisation ping-pong, then it might be the right time to choose a favourite romanisation system. I'm in the same boat as you. The best I can do is hope to find a site that lists both kanji and romaji, then state in my notes that I've compared the kanji on the website with the kanji in the movie to see that they match. It really does my head in, but it goes some way to ensuring the data is correct. I think though, because we have a user who is capable, and is making the effort to check with the community, it is a good time to choose a preferred system. That's not to say that other systems can't be used, but that when a user has the option/skill, that one is used. I have tried linking actors in my local (and it's pretty messy, with little chance of getting it contributable). The CLT can't even help us on this one... the same onscreen credit can equally be rendered in (it seems) three different ways. No CLT result can dominate when A = B = C as is the case here. Yeah, that's right, I agree with what surfeur51 and RHo posted while I was typing.  Quoting RHo: Quote:
IMO we should only select a preferred system and not a mandatory one. Therefore your credits will be future proof. If a system will be chosen, then IMO anybody should still be allowed to enter new credits in their personally preferred system. But it would be disallowed to change an existing credit from the standard system into the non standard personally preferred system. This way those few contributors could still choose their own system while ping pong would be prevented. | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) | | | | Last edited: by W0m6at |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Therefore I'm happy with whatever romanised credits I get from the Asian speaking contributors. If however we begin to see romanisation ping-pong, then it might be the right time to choose a favourite romanisation system.
The problem is as usual, linking. If the same actor is entered in two movies by two different users using different systems, they will not link. I fear this far more than pingponging, which should not be too serious on those titles. Then you could of course choose to change the romanisation for that credit to the standard form (to be chosen) and liking would be established. But I fear, that not all users of the few we have, who contribute romanised credits, are able to correctly create romanised credits in any system. Therefore I would like, that at least for new credits, they could choose their favourite system. For linking purposes somebody else, who can handle the standard system (to be chosen) could convert them to that system. |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't want to throw myself in here as the authority on the matter, but for those users that submit Japanese romanised text and aren't sure, I'd be happy to check it for you if you post about it. Perhaps we can even make a special thread just for that? One of the major problems is that the same kanji in names can sometimes be read in different ways. Even for native speakers, it's not always clear which pronunciation (and thus which romanisation) to use. Today is a slow day at work but I can't check daily. However, if it helps that I come on the forums from time to time to check names, I don't mind to help out. Chances are these names will end up in my collection anyway  Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
The problem is as usual, linking. If the same actor is entered in two movies by two different users using different systems, they will not link. I fear this far more than pingponging, which should not be too serious on those titles. Very good point. This is one of the issues I also had in mind. As the database grows, it becomes more and more crucial to keep names linked ... at least, I think so. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies | | | | Last edited: by Taro |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 |  Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | My biggest problem, as I just did a Chineese cast/crew profile, is this:
Credit: "Lian Jie Li"
Okay, I'm entering it into the profiler, but what is his last, middle and first name? I use Jet Li as name, and credited as "Lian Jie Li", so for this person it's pretty easy, but if you don't know the actor you can't be sure.
But then I have this: "Sun Koom Nam". I know many of these names are translated into english by putting the first part of the name as the last, but still I don't know what's his/her middle name, and I couldn't find this in any other database on the internet. I can't use the CLT, because I don't have any other combo.
A suggestion to the CLT: When I search for "Sun Koom Nam", please give me any similar name posibility, so I can try to verify these names in other databases to see if it's the same person. Now I have to manually find any comination I can think of. |
|  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote:
A suggestion to the CLT: When I search for "Sun Koom Nam", please give me any similar name posibility, so I can try to verify these names in other databases to see if it's the same person. Now I have to manually find any comination I can think of. That is indeed something I'd like to see the CLT do. Not just with regards to Asian names, but in general: when I search on any given name, I would like to be shown not only the occasions that that name is listed in the "credited as" field (as it is now), but also the occasions when it's only used as a "common name". Essentially, a search on any given name variant would then show ALL listings for that particular actor or crew member, including those when he was credited under a different name variant. Depending on how that data is presented, it might become a lot easier to propagate already established links. One of the big problems in this area now is that I don't know about it when someone in, say, France, fixes a profile by adding a few much-needed common names. Those that own copies of the same movie in other localities will have to "invent the wheel" all over again. If the CLT could somehow draw our attention to already established links, that could help a lot. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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