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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
technically allowed: yes
value added: no
That's a personal call, gweeter, my friend, not a statement of fact.
I am still up in the air, I hate if then statements because I believe they are confusing to users BUT there are also sill far too many credits which may be the ONLY Costume, Visual Effects Credit. So perhaps the idea of IF there is a Costume Designer Then Stop, if not then what is it. I even ran into a major credit recently that said Makeup Applied By...OY.
Skip Personal call? Certainly. But opinions were asked for.  The rules allow all those Costume-related credits listed in the table. I don't allow any but the top Costume credits into the local. And when submitting i only use those top credits. Some sort of if-then would be useful for many of the new Art credits. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
 There are always exceptions and this is not one of those, because an additional designer is not the same as a principal designer. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
technically allowed: yes
value added: no I could say the same thing for 90% of the crew credits that we enter.  This next part is a general statement and not aimed at you so, please don't take it that way... We have enough problems with the crew catagories that do not have associated roles in the 'Credited As' column. Why must we create new problems in the catagories that are perfectly spelled out? If there is a credit listed in a profile, that you don't like, just remove it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
A person who only hands out the proper costumes is no designer and should not be entered as such. However the rules do allow them to be added as designers even though they're not and therefore I unfortunately can not vote against it. Indeed, a "wardrobe supervisor" is probably a fancy name for the hat-check girl. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
technically allowed: yes
value added: no
I could say the same thing for 90% of the crew credits that we enter.
This next part is a general statement and not aimed at you so, please don't take it that way...
We have enough problems with the crew catagories that do not have associated roles in the 'Credited As' column. Why must we create new problems in the catagories that are perfectly spelled out? If there is a credit listed in a profile, that you don't like, just remove it. Well, I do remove them. Of course this means that I have to do a complete credit audit for each profile to determine this...making the online just that much more useless to me. "Just remove it" sounds like a nice easy solution, but what it really means is the heck with the community. Regardless, as I said before, there is no rule against these zombie contributions and I wouldn't vote against them. Neither would I vote for them. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
Well, I do remove them. Of course this means that I have to do a complete credit audit for each profile to determine this...making the online just that much more useless to me.
"Just remove it" sounds like a nice easy solution, but what it really means is the heck with the community. Can't the same be said for the people who don't enter them? I mean, some people must like them, otherwise why would they bother entering them for contribution. That being the case, isn't your leaving them out, basically saying, the heck with them? Quote:
Regardless, as I said before, there is no rule against these zombie contributions and I wouldn't vote against them. Neither would I vote for them. So, just because you don't like them, the people who enter them are 'zombies' blindly following the rules? Isn't it possible that those people want those credits? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | People who follow the rules that Ken wants are zombies??? Sorry but I see those that follow them to be the ones in the right. In this case it is right to add those people. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
Well, I do remove them. Of course this means that I have to do a complete credit audit for each profile to determine this...making the online just that much more useless to me.
"Just remove it" sounds like a nice easy solution, but what it really means is the heck with the community.
Can't the same be said for the people who don't enter them? I mean, some people must like them, otherwise why would they bother entering them for contribution. That being the case, isn't your leaving them out, basically saying, the heck with them?
Quote:
Regardless, as I said before, there is no rule against these zombie contributions and I wouldn't vote against them. Neither would I vote for them.
So, just because you don't like them, the people who enter them are 'zombies' blindly following the rules? Isn't it possible that those people want those credits? I suppose it's possible. I do know that we were both around when the rule was batted around for this and the alternate roles were created to catch the changes in language, over the history of film. At no point did anybody suggest it would be a good idea to capture every last person associated with costumes and giving them all a designer credit. So, while its possible that some folks actually want this stuff, they never once made their feelings known to the rules committee. When it comes down to it, I have yet to hear anybody say that they actually want the entire wardrobe department. I've heard plenty say that there is no rule against adding it, but nobody seems to truly covet the data. Frankly, this is the equivalent of crediting camera operators as directors of photography...and I don't see anybody lobbying for that idea. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | . | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Nobody, at least in this thread, are denying that they are allowed. Some of us are just stating that we don't want those people in our profiles.
But you can pick and choose when you contribute. Gerri has previously stated that you don't have to complete the entire cast/crew list, so if you don't want to include the wardrobe supervisors, the rules can't force you to either.
You are of course free to include them yourself, but you can't make us that don't like them include them.
But out of interest, in newer movies, do you think that the wardrobe supervisor is the same as a costume designer, or do you include them just because the rule allows you to? | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | | Last edited: by reybr |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
I seem to have another collection on these events: It was put on the table. The rule is what it is now, and the credits are allowed. It is not what any individual wants, it is what the rules state, and if you do a full profile, you don't pick and choose what go's in or not. Neither do you attempt to stop any contribution because you don't like its contents. If it is by the rules, so be it. I think every last person in this thread has stated that you contribution followed the rules and they wouldn't vote against it. As far as what others choose to contribute, I think the expression is "tough luck". You are, of course, welcome at any time to go back and "fix" their contributions or pull the disc and do a full credit check in order to justify your vote against them. Doh, reybr has already addressed this more diplomatically than I.  | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
Well, I do remove them. Of course this means that I have to do a complete credit audit for each profile to determine this...making the online just that much more useless to me. May I ask why you bother to remove them? Even if you don't care about them, it doesn't make your database that much bigger. Why not simply ignore it? I never cared for studios, so I never look at them and accept any update to them blindly. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
Well, I do remove them. Of course this means that I have to do a complete credit audit for each profile to determine this...making the online just that much more useless to me.
May I ask why you bother to remove them? Even if you don't care about them, it doesn't make your database that much bigger. Why not simply ignore it?
I never cared for studios, so I never look at them and accept any update to them blindly. Because I do care about crew. I care enough to even bother attempting to link them together in my local. Since I care so much, I'm not real excited about having the wardrobe mistress listed as a costume designer. It would be one thing if the wardrobe mistress was listed as such, then I wouldn't mind. But to give this position the same weight as a costume designer basically makes the entire credit worthless. As I've stated before, its no different than saying that camera operators are directors of photography. Well, they're not and to include them pretty much cheapens the whole credit. Look, on older films I'm aware that often the only credit issued is one of wardrobe. In such cases, I'm forced to assume that this is the costume designer and I'm okay with that. But on newer films when a costume designer is explicitly mentioned, then its disingenuous to claim that every other person in the costume department has performed this same design role. Or, to put it differently...if we're supposed to list the entire wardrobe department, then why aren't we given all those roles as options? Seems to me that all Invelos wants is the costume designers and they've provided a list of places to look for them. That doesn't mean that we have to shut our brain down once we've found the designer(s) and go ahead and list everything else that can be crammed into this role. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
People who follow the rules that Ken wants are zombies??? No, that's not what I meant with rule-zombies. I meant that some users just enter everything they see in the credits that are allowed without thinking if those are appropriate or not. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
I never enter those when there is already a costume designer credited Ditto. Except if I come across a specific designer for a cast member or a specific type of costume designer - such as if King Kong had a credit for 'Native Costumes Designed by Jack Jack in the credits - then I'll credit those too. Otherwise once I credit the costume designer I don't enter costume supervisors or the like. But I will accept them into my local database from an approved profile. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
But out of interest, in newer movies, do you think that the wardrobe supervisor is the same as a costume designer, or do you include them just because the rule allows you to? I don't know about Giga, but I do not think they are the same. I do, however, think that they are just as important and, as long as the crew chart allows them to be entered, will continue to enter them. I do understand that some of you don't like them so, for you, I indicate which crew members are listed with the alternate roles. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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