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DB Woodside conundrum
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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Are you saying that you would enter an on-screen "DB Woodside" credit as "D/B/Woodside [DB Woodside]"? I'm not saying that's right or wrong - I just would like to know EXACTLY where you, and others in this perpetual debate, stand. As I understand it, Unicus would simply enter D/B/Woodside and leave it at that, while you would use the "credited as" feature to indicate that the on-screen credit doesn't show a space between the initials. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - either one of you...

You are correct, that is what I would do.  For me, this is a parsing issue, not a data issue.
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 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting skipnet50:
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I daresay Unicus has it correct. His "name" for Profiler purposes would D/B/Woodside and then we would simply enter DB Woodside to indicate what the actual credit reads.

Are you saying that you would enter an on-screen "DB Woodside" credit as "D/B/Woodside [DB Woodside]"? I'm not saying that's right or wrong - I just would like to know EXACTLY where you, and others in this perpetual debate, stand. As I understand it, Unicus would simply enter D/B/Woodside and leave it at that, while you would use the "credited as" feature to indicate that the on-screen credit doesn't show a space between the initials. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - either one of you...

That is precisely what I am saying, Tim. I care about what the data and the Rules tell me to do, I don't care what somebody's "name", you want a family tree that's another issue but not here.

IF the data said said D b Woodside then obviouslly I need nothing additional.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting skipnet50:
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That is precisely what I am saying, Tim.

That's what I thought. So you and Unicus don't agree at all...  Personally, I'm on the fence, but I can't help noticing that the rules tell me to "list names exactly as they are in the credits." That makes me want to copy what I see on-screen exactly, including the lack or presence of a space. I'm having a little trouble deciding on my own that spaces don't fall under "list names exactly as they are in the credits." As always, I'm simply trying to follow the rules, and such a decision seems to be getting dangerously close to a "personal preference" - something I'd rather avoid.

Furthermore, I've seen several users trying to remove such "A./B./C. [A.B. C]" entries, simply saying "we don't do that" in their contribution notes. It seems half our userbase feels one way about this, and the other half feels the exact opposite. You and Unicus are a prime example.

Again: I'm on the fence. This situation where parts of the community deal with the same on-screen credit in different ways is a huge problem to me, and I'd like nothing better than to clear it up. I'd be willing to go either way, but I'd like to have an absolute consensus first. I'm afraid I'm a bit hesitant to eliminate personally verified "A./B./C. [A.B. C]" entries from my database - before undoing the work, I'd like to be absolutely sure that I'm never going to need the "exactly as credited" variant again. As I'm once again faced with different camps, I remain unsure what to do...
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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I know how you feel on this one Tim... to me Exactly includes everything as it is in the credits... whether that be a space or a comma before Jr. or what have you. Exactly to me means just that. I just wish one way or the other Ken would let it be known what to do in a situation like this so everyone will be on the same page.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
That is precisely what I am saying, Tim.

That's what I thought. So you and Unicus don't agree at all...  Personally, I'm on the fence, but I can't help noticing that the rules tell me to "list names exactly as they are in the credits." That makes me want to copy what I see on-screen exactly, including the lack or presence of a space. I'm having a little trouble deciding on my own that spaces don't fall under "list names exactly as they are in the credits." As always, I'm simply trying to follow the rules, and such a decision seems to be getting dangerously close to a "personal preference" - something I'd rather avoid.

Furthermore, I've seen several users trying to remove such "A./B./C. [A.B. C]" entries, simply saying "we don't do that" in their contribution notes. It seems half our userbase feels one way about this, and the other half feels the exact opposite. You and Unicus are a prime example.

Again: I'm on the fence. This situation where parts of the community deal with the same on-screen credit in different ways is a huge problem to me, and I'd like nothing better than to clear it up. I'd be willing to go either way, but I'd like to have an absolute consensus first. I'm afraid I'm a bit hesitant to eliminate personally verified "A./B./C. [A.B. C]" entries from my database - before undoing the work, I'd like to be absolutely sure that I'm never going to need the "exactly as credited" variant again. As I'm once again faced with different camps, I remain unsure what to do...


We've been over this before.

The problem here is that when you enter 'DB Woodside' as 'D/B/Woodside' you ARE entering it exactly as it is on the screen.  You are not entering any spaces in the data that you put in.

It is the program itself that inserts the space for display purposes.  This has nothing at all to do with the data that the online database actually holds.

I agree with Unicus, that it should simply be entered 'D/B/Woodside' without use of the "Credited As" feature.

This is almost the same as using "Credited As" for 'Tim de Zarn [Tim De Zarn]'.. It is a complete waste of time.

If we really want to be able to enter data "as credited", Ken would need to remove the functionality of the program that automatically inserts spaces between the name fields.  This makes no sense to me!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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.
Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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To you it would be a waste of time, hal, accuracy is not your objective,. It is mine and that is why I do it,  the program inserts the space, which may not appear in the ACTUAL credit. I have no issue with how we have to enter it, but if the data says there is no space then I use the CA to reflect the accurate and actual data.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Quoting skipnet50:
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To you it would be a waste of time, hal, accuracy is not your objective,. It is mine and that is why I do it,  the program inserts the space, which may not appear in the ACTUAL credit. I have no issue with how we have to enter it, but if the data says there is no space then I use the CA to reflect the accurate and actual data.

Skip


And I repeat:
"D/B/Woodside" is 100% accurate data.  No space between "D" and "B" is entered in the database.

The space you see in DVDP in the cast list is a display issue, NOT a data issue.

What you are doing is manipulating the data to get it to display the way you want it to.  By doing so, you are screwing up the CLT by increasing the instances of "DB//Woodside" when you yourself stated that the correct way to enter it is 'D/B/Woodside'.

Keep it up and 'DB/Woodside' will become the most commonly credited form of his credit and we'll have to change his common name in every profile!
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
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I just wish one way or the other Ken would let it be known what to do in a situation like this so everyone will be on the same page.

Agreed! We've been around this block so many times, and it's obvious we won't get anywhere... I see both methods of handling this being approved by the screeners on a regular basis. I also see different users voting "no" against either method of handling this. I thoroughly hate the inconsistency of having "A./B./C." in one profile, "A./B./C. [A.B. C.]" in the next, and "A.B.//C." in yet another one - all different interpretations of the exact same on-screen credit.

Now personally I'm perfectly willing to go either way, but as long as there's no general consensus and different people keep using their own method, the problem will remain. Ken really should step in and settle this, so we can finally put this behind us, and all of us can handle these credits in the same way.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
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Looks likely we will allhave to change our DB to "DB//Woodside" as the profile change was approved.

Steve
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting snarbo:
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Looks likely we will allhave to change our DB to "DB//Woodside" as the profile change was approved.

As I said earlier: I see all of the mentioned ways of handling this being approved regularly. Today it's DB//Woodside, tomorrow it's D/B/Woodside, and the next day it's D/B/Woodside, credited as DB Woodside. This is exactly the problem. Everone is simply handling this the way he likes it, and there's no consistency whatsoever - neither in what's being contributed, nor in what's being approved. Result: a huge mess, and I can't see any improvement without some guidance from Invelos...
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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I'd rather see us enter him as 'DB//Woodside' than to enter him as 'D/B/Woodside [DB Woodside]'.

This is just one more reason why the current linking system simply does not work and needs to be scrapped. 
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting hal9g:
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I'd rather see us enter him as 'DB//Woodside' than to enter him as 'D/B/Woodside [DB Woodside]'.

Well, as you've seen, there are plenty people that prefer the the other option as well. IMHO it's not so much about what either of us "rather sees" - the important thing is that we're all on the same page. As this thread, and countless similar ones before it, clearly shows, we won't achieve that by ourselves...

Quote:
This is just one more reason why the current linking system simply does not work and needs to be scrapped. 

It works wonders - locally, that is. Thanks to the "credited as" feature I have reached a level of accuracy in my local database that I don't think will ever be matched by any online database - ours included. So that part is great. For online purposes, though, the system is severely hampered by (a) the fact that a number of people refuse to use it, probably due to the extra work involved, (b) the fact that we're stuck with a CLT that almost invariably declares the IMDb-name the "winner", which gets pretty tiresome to fight against after a while, and (c) the lack of any guidance on issues like this (how to deal with this lack/presence of spaces, how to deal with the lack or presence of a comma in suffixed names, how to deal with parsing,...). IMHO, especially the latter is important: how can we be expected to work towards an accurate database if on each of these issues there are various groups of users handling this in entirely different ways. We HAVE to get users on the same page on these issues, or I'm afraid the "sharing the workload" part of the program will slowly die.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I'd rather see us enter him as 'DB//Woodside' than to enter him as 'D/B/Woodside [DB Woodside]'.

Well, as you've seen, there are plenty people that prefer the the other option as well. IMHO it's not so much about what either of us "rather sees" - the important thing is that we're all on the same page. As this thread, and countless similar ones before it, clearly shows, we won't achieve that by ourselves...

Quote:
This is just one more reason why the current linking system simply does not work and needs to be scrapped. 

It works wonders - locally, that is. Thanks to the "credited as" feature I have reached a level of accuracy in my local database that I don't think will ever be matched by any online database - ours included. So that part is great. For online purposes, though, the system is severely hampered by (a) the fact that a number of people refuse to use it, probably due to the extra work involved, (b) the fact that we're stuck with a CLT that almost invariably declares the IMDb-name the "winner", which gets pretty tiresome to fight against after a while, and (c) the lack of any guidance on issues like this (how to deal with this lack/presence of spaces, how to deal with the lack or presence of a comma in suffixed names, how to deal with parsing,...). IMHO, especially the latter is important: how can we be expected to work towards an accurate database if on each of these issues there are various groups of users handling this in entirely different ways. We HAVE to get users on the same page on these issues, or I'm afraid the "sharing the workload" part of the program will slowly die.


As long as we have to determine a "Common Name" (which can change over time, BTW) there will always be problems.  A simple documented linking database (which would be part of your "local") along with entering credits strictly "as credited", would solve the problem for 99.9% of all cases.

Even parsing wouldn't matter, since you could simply add an entry that says that H//BC = H/B/C.

I think Ken may be a masochist! 
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
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Quoting hal9g:
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I'd rather see us enter him as 'DB//Woodside' than to enter him as 'D/B/Woodside [DB Woodside]'.

This is just one more reason why the current linking system simply does not work and needs to be scrapped. 

I think if DB Woodside (no periods or no space between DB) can be demonstrated to be his most commonly credited name, we could (should??) accept the 'DB//Woodside' parsing irrespective of the fact that DB represents first and middle initials.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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Quoting hal9g:
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And I repeat:
"D/B/Woodside" is 100% accurate data.  No space between "D" and "B" is entered in the database.

The space you see in DVDP in the cast list is a display issue, NOT a data issue.

What you are doing is manipulating the data to get it to display the way you want it to.  By doing so, you are screwing up the CLT by increasing the instances of "DB//Woodside" when you yourself stated that the correct way to enter it is 'D/B/Woodside'.

Keep it up and 'DB/Woodside' will become the most commonly credited form of his credit and we'll have to change his common name in every profile!


Spot on.

Still, I also wholeheartedly agree with T!M when he says

Quote:

[...] I'm perfectly willing to go either way, but as long as there's no general consensus and different people keep using their own method, the problem will remain. Ken really should step in and settle this, [...]
-- Enry
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