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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Contributing to Profiles of DVD's you Don't Own |
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| Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
We're supposed to only vote on profiles we own so that we can verify the data, yet we're not to be expected to actually verify the data? That's just my understanding of what some people are saying. I personally do not verify most data for profiles I vote on. I verify things that look odd to me, but certainly not everything. I personally think if the data has been submitted by a user that doesn't own the specific release that yes, the data should be 100% checked because they couldn't check it themself. Of course that is down to the individual voter. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Posts: 281 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Dragon 6:
Quote:
Ken did not say you can contribute to other localities. He said you can copy from other localities.
Well, that made me laugh. The two are mutually exclusive, I gather?  There is a difference between them. They are two seperate things. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think it should be the responsibility of a user with an incomplete profile to copy from a good profile. It shouldn't be up to people with the "good" profile to distribute that data out to other profiles. As long as my profiles are good, I'm content. Why should I care if other profiles are good or not if the owners of those profiles don't care enough to add that data or copy from another profile? | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Posts: 281 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
I think it should be the responsibility of a user with an incomplete profile to copy from a good profile. 100% Agree |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
I think it should be the responsibility of a user with an incomplete profile to copy from a good profile. It shouldn't be up to people with the "good" profile to distribute that data out to other profiles. As long as my profiles are good, I'm content. Why should I care if other profiles are good or not if the owners of those profiles don't care enough to add that data or copy from another profile? Because profiles in the db which are not 'as-credited' affect the CLT results that we all have to live with. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Posts: 281 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
Such a thing could happen. More likely though would be that you would replace IMDb data with as-credited data from a copy of the film. Could there be regional differences? Yes, in a few circumstances. I'm sure we could start a sticky thread and it would be a lot shorter than the birth year thread. As T!M pointed out, if there's a dubbing cast situation, that's one thing. I think the consequence of limiting our contributions to profiles we own is that we preserve mass quantities of bad IMDb data out of fear that we might create a regional error, and to the extent that the existing bad data is not as-credited, our CLT data is flawed. Replace bad data/info with more possible bad data/info. We will never fix the mistakes in the online system. We need to find a better way. |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
I think it should be the responsibility of a user with an incomplete profile to copy from a good profile. It shouldn't be up to people with the "good" profile to distribute that data out to other profiles. As long as my profiles are good, I'm content. Why should I care if other profiles are good or not if the owners of those profiles don't care enough to add that data or copy from another profile?
Because profiles in the db which are not 'as-credited' affect the CLT results that we all have to live with. Exactly! |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | For better or for worse, we have never blocked users from contributing to profiles they don't own, nor have we blocked users from voting on contributions for profiles they don't own. In point of fact, the practice of voting on contributions for profiles users don't own has been going on for many years.
In these cases, no, it is not likely that the users' wishlist contents is an accurate protrayal of their intent to purchase. However it is also the case that these users are some of the most careful and accurate voters.
Similarly, the users who take it upon themselves to improve profiles that are not in their collection are some of the most accurate contributors.
For these reasons, we have chosen not to block contributions or voting in these cases. I'm happy to reconsider this policy if the community feels it is necessary. However, be advised that if a change is made, it will prevent both contributing and voting, not one or the other. This is something I have considered in the past and have developed a decently secure method of preventing extra-collection contribution/voting. I would prefer not to implement this change as I still feel it would be detrimental to the overall database.
To recap:
- We do not (currently) prevent users from contributing or voting on profiles they don't own.
- If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source.
Clear as mud? | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
To recap:
- We do not (currently) prevent users from contributing or voting on profiles they don't own.
- If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source.
Clear as mud? Yes! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dragon 6: Quote:
Quote:
Such a thing could happen. More likely though would be that you would replace IMDb data with as-credited data from a copy of the film. Could there be regional differences? Yes, in a few circumstances. I'm sure we could start a sticky thread and it would be a lot shorter than the birth year thread. As T!M pointed out, if there's a dubbing cast situation, that's one thing. I think the consequence of limiting our contributions to profiles we own is that we preserve mass quantities of bad IMDb data out of fear that we might create a regional error, and to the extent that the existing bad data is not as-credited, our CLT data is flawed.
Replace bad data/info with more possible bad data/info. We will never fix the mistakes in the online system. We need to find a better way. It's a question of degree. To what extent would regional differences be a problem? Again I ask if this has ever occurred that a regional error has been created using this method? If we have even had a single occurrence, what about 10 times? Out of 300,000+ profiles, that's insignificant (3/1000%). The extent to which the existing database is IMDb-sourced is often greater than 50%. Outside of R1-USA and some R2 localities, that percentage jumps to nearly 100%. That's what I find when I try to use the CLT. Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
To recap:
- We do not (currently) prevent users from contributing or voting on profiles they don't own.
- If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source.
Clear as mud?  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks for the update! The official viewpoint is clear. Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
This is something I have considered in the past and have developed a decently secure method of preventing extra-collection contribution/voting. Are you able to give us a basic rundown of how this would work. Or more specifically would it prevent people without DVD/Blu-ray drives from contributing/voting? |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
Thanks for the update! The official viewpoint is clear.
Are you able to give us a basic rundown of how this would work. Or more specifically would it prevent people without DVD/Blu-ray drives from contributing/voting? No, not at first. However, if users persisted in working around the prevention mechanisms, we might be forced to move to that as a final solution. A basic initial implementation would limit contributions/voting to the contents of the Owned collection, and restrict this to items which have been in the collection without interruption for at least 48 hours. As a further step if necessary, we would require users to designate their "home" locality, and prevent contributions for profiles outside this locality, again instituting a 48-hour delay on home locality changes. The locality restriction would have other detrimental effects, so that would be a fallback in case of widespread abuse. In the case of a small number of users bypassing the restrictions, we would simply ban the users from contribution/voting. All that being said, I would still rather avoid implementing this as I believe the current system is superior. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
Thanks for the update! The official viewpoint is clear.
Are you able to give us a basic rundown of how this would work. Or more specifically would it prevent people without DVD/Blu-ray drives from contributing/voting?
No, not at first. However, if users persisted in working around the prevention mechanisms, we might be forced to move to that as a final solution.
A basic initial implementation would limit contributions/voting to the contents of the Owned collection, and restrict this to items which have been in the collection without interruption for at least 48 hours. As a further step if necessary, we would requrie users to designate their "home" locality, and prevent contributions for profiles outside this locality, again instituting a 48-hour delay on home locality changes. Thanks. I'm all for the part about a title being in the collection for 48 hours before being able to participate in the Online database. I'm less keen about the home region though as I for one import a lot of titles both from the States & mainland Europe. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
I for one import a lot of titles both from the States & mainland Europe. As do I. Apart from a number of discs from my own locality, I've got lots of R1 stuff, a bunch from Australia, and quite a few from various other European localities. And then a few from even more "exotic" places like South Africa, Hong Kong,... |
| | Registered: April 3, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,998 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
I for one import a lot of titles both from the States & mainland Europe.
As do I. Apart from a number of discs from my own locality, I've got lots of R1 stuff, a bunch from Australia, and quite a few from various other European localities. And then a few from even more "exotic" places like South Africa, Hong Kong,... You can add me to this list |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
All that being said, I would still rather avoid implementing this as I believe the current system is superior. Before I would want to see this be implemented in place of the current system, I would want to know just how serious a problem this really is. As I see it, we have one well-meaning user contributing profiles for titles he doesn't own based on a profile he does own -- across regions -- and another, also well-meaning user adding profiles to his wishlist to be able to vote yes/no to the first user's contributions. But what I don't know is how pervasive such behavior is -- if, in fact, it is pervasive. Unles this is (or becomes) a significant issue, I'd rather not see things changed from the current system. Otherwise, we may end up throwing the baby out with the bath water -- an no one would be happy with the result. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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