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How we moderate (Locked)
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Quoting lyonsden5:
Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting Forum Moderator:
Quote:
We've been going by the guideline that name calling is an attack, whereas denigration of motive is not.

So, "You're an idiot" has been editable, whereas "You're always causing trouble" has not.

This is a subjective line is going to move as needed. Be polite and you're in no danger of an edit due to personal attack.  Be impolite and risk an edit, even if in the past we've been more allowing.

Both types cause flame wars. "You're always causing trouble" leads to "Nuh-uh, you've been causing trouble longer than I have. Remember back in 2004...." I do hope you will decrease your tolerance for personal attacks.

I just got a "you did this in 2007" so an attack in 2010 is warranted. 

Rick:

It's just a follow on to your completely unacceptable behavior.

Again, not going to bite. Your actions speak a lot louder than my words ever could.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Just as an aside, I'd like to thank Gerri and the moderators for chipping in and giving us a bit more info about how they go about their moderating. Seeing them chip in like this makes me feel more confident that we are being listened to, and that our suggestions may be taken on.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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More baiting and instigation.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTaro
Registered: February 23, 2009
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Quoting Forum Moderator:
Quote:
We've been going by the guideline that name calling is an attack, whereas denigration of motive is not.

So, "You're an idiot" has been editable, whereas "You're always causing trouble" has not.

This is a subjective line is going to move as needed. Be polite and you're in no danger of an edit due to personal attack.  Be impolite and risk an edit, even if in the past we've been more allowing.

If I may be as bold as to give my opinion. Personally, I find the statements below to be equally offensive (just fictional examples) :

"You're an idiot!"
"You're incapable of understanding even the most logical of things with your tiny bird brain and I'm done explaining it to you"
"Get the hell out of here! Don't you dare come back!"

The first one is namecalling, which falls under moderation
The second one is not direct namecalling but questions the other's mental ability in a clear and denigrating way, which would not fall under moderation
The last one is neither but one user tries to exert power over another, which he does not have

Personally, and again this is only me speaking, I would find all three to be equally offensive had they be directed at me. Are we to understand that only the first one would get moderated and the other ones left unattended to? Because I do feel all three are not only offensive but contribute to a negative forum atmosphere.

To add one more, I think it would be a good thing if 'newbie hazing' were also taken into account. I feel new users (aside from spambots of course) should be welcomed with kind words and understanding, helpful words. If they prove to be disruptive lateron, then the moderators can deal with that but I think everyone should be given a fair chance at joining the forum and Invelos moderators as best placed to enforce such a policy.

Again, all the above is only my opinion and feelings on the matter.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsamuelrichardscott
Registered: September 18, 2008
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I would be interested in a response to this or was it an unwarranted attempt of fooling people you were being attacked?

Quoting samuelrichardscott:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
He has edited his post. To make it less offensive, James


He edited it the same minute he posted it... 2 HOURS before your post.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Forum Moderator:
Quote:
We've been going by the guideline that name calling is an attack, whereas denigration of motive is not.

So, "You're an idiot" has been editable, whereas "You're always causing trouble" has not.

This is a subjective line is going to move as needed. Be polite and you're in no danger of an edit due to personal attack.  Be impolite and risk an edit, even if in the past we've been more allowing.

Maybe it's because I am a parser but, after thinking on it, this really bothers me.  Let me change your analogy a bit as the two examples are unrelated..."You're a troublemaker" is editable, whereas "You're always causing trouble" is not.  Does that really make any sense?  Both are saying the exact same thing.  That would be like telling someone, "You're always telling lies," and claiming that you didn't just call them a liar.  It's a distinction without a difference.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Maybe it's because I am a parser but, after thinking on it, this really bothers me.  Let me change your analogy a bit as the two examples are unrelated..."You're a troublemaker" is editable, whereas "You're always causing trouble" is not.  Does that really make any sense?  Both are saying the exact same thing.  That would be like telling someone, "You're always telling lies," and claiming that you didn't just call them a liar.  It's a distinction without a difference.

I found it a very odd distinction to make as well, but it certainly explains why so many "questionable" posts were left that we would have expected to be moderated.

Edit: I've certainly always used my red arrows, and will continue to do so, on the assumption that both types of statement were due moderation anyway.
 Last edited: by northbloke
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Moderator:

You may sanction any of us at your will, you have the power. But the system is patently unfair in its use, it always has been and will continue to be in the future, as long as it is tied in any way into any sort of a user generated reputation system. We have users with a taste for blood and that is all that they want. I see at least one user who apparently took my head the other has now bitten that hand and gone back to his usual behavior. I am sorry, moderator, the system has no more credibility and perhaps even less than some of the users. I have no more interest in this thread. I will live up to the deal I agreed to with Kinky, but I will wager it will not last long, sadly, but not by my doing. I said this moderation system has done nothing but create a toxic and overheated atmosphere in these forums and that is positively true.

I know which direction this is headed and it will be yet another wrong-headed and ill-advised implementation. This is all too clear. I will watch this thread in case the moderator decides to engage, but otherwise i am done with this play and the fools who star in it.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Posts: 2,372
Posted:
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Maybe it's because I am a parser but, after thinking on it, this really bothers me.  Let me change your analogy a bit as the two examples are unrelated..."You're a troublemaker" is editable, whereas "You're always causing trouble" is not.  Does that really make any sense?  Both are saying the exact same thing.  That would be like telling someone, "You're always telling lies," and claiming that you didn't just call them a liar.  It's a distinction without a difference.

I found it a very odd distinction to make as well, but it certainly explains why so many "questionable" posts were left that we would have expected to be moderated.


You are correct. It does explain some things. Unfortunately though in pointing it out it lets users know how to phrase an insult properly so it will remain.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsamuelrichardscott
Registered: September 18, 2008
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So no response to my post or apology to Alien then?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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@lyonsden
I'm hoping this statement:

Quoting Forum Moderator:
Quote:
This is a subjective line is going to move as needed. Be polite and you're in no danger of an edit due to personal attack.  Be impolite and risk an edit, even if in the past we've been more allowing.


suggests that they will at least start looking at moderating both types of post.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Fingers crossed you are correct. Giving someone the tools required to beat the system only helps the bad guys as the good guys would never even think of it.

Does that make me a bad guy since it was the 1st thing that popped into my head. 

(I know... only if I use it )
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Moderator:

You may sanction any of us at your will, you have the power. But the system is patently unfair in its use, it always has been and will continue to be in the future, as long as it is tied in any way into any sort of a user generated reputation system. We have users with a taste for blood and that is all that they want. I see at least one user who apparently took my head the other has now bitten that hand and gone back to his usual behavior. I am sorry, moderator, the system has no more credibility and perhaps even less than some of the users. I have no more interest in this thread. I will live up to the deal I agreed to with Kinky, but I will wager it will not last long, sadly, but not by my doing. I said this moderation system has done nothing but create a toxic and overheated atmosphere in these forums and that is positively true.

I know which direction this is headed and it will be yet another wrong-headed and ill-advised implementation. This is all too clear. I will watch this thread in case the moderator decides to engage, but otherwise i am done with this play and the fools who star in it.


I think everybody already got your opinion from the +100  almost carbon copy previous posts of yours. Tsiisz, it like a Groundhog Day.
 Last edited: by Kulju
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
I will live up to the deal I agreed to with Kinky, but I will wager it will not last long, sadly, but not by my doing.

Do you really not understand that statements like this are part of the problem?  You're basically holding out one hand in friendship to a member, while slapping him in the face with the other.  Regardless of whose fault any of the arguments are, they will continue unless you put a stop to them.  You can only do that if you refuse to participate in responding to attacks.

Since you think so little of those you contend with, you must realize that it's up to you to take the high ground and put an end to the strife.  (And by the way, I'm not making excuses for anyone else.)  All I would ask you to do is to take every post at face value and not try to read underlying intent by dredging up past history.  When you do read a post that is obviously baiting or insulting, simply give it a red arrow and move on.  It's not nearly as difficult as you think it is.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Scott:

If throwing a red arrow would achieve anything it would be good, but it does not, that is all too painfully obvious. I understand how the system works and the basic unfairness involved. I have also tried taking the high road and been abused for doing so. I HAVE the high road.

I was going to say much more but i have decided not to.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting samuelrichardscott:
Quote:
So no response to my post or apology to Alien then?

Sam:

It is not your place for one thing. And for another No I will not apologize to someone such as Alien who has never done anything other that attack and insult me. Civil discourse is not part of  his vocabulary.
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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