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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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RFC: Filter for Jr. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
In other words, you are ignoring the part of the rule that tells you to use standard capitalization rules. Thanks for clearing that up. I did, however, come up with another question...
In other words: you're dodging the question. You cannot possibly arrive at entering "DEVITO" as "DeVito" without outside knowledge. You're mixing up "standard capitalization rules" with "applying what you know to be correct". And we don't do that - not in the "credited as" field at least. No, you are dodging the question. There is nothing in the rules that tell me to use T!M's 'feelings'. There is, however, a rule that tells me to use 'standard capitalization rules'. I have provided those rules for you. Have you countered them with different rules? No, instead you explain how you 'feel' about the situation. Sorry, but your 'feelings' aren't rules. Quote:
Now you don't even agree that "Danny DeVito" is the man's common name?! Couldn't you at least keep the discussion on a semi-serious level? <Sigh>I added it, obviously, the way we add all common names: I established that the name variants "Danny Devito" and "Danny DeVito" refer to the same person (visually confirmed myself, if you really want to know), and then I used the CLT to establish which variant he's mostly credited as. That is, due to the limitations of the CLT, a bit more work then it usually is, but the fact that he's credited as "Devito" only 3 out of 32 appearances throughout my own collection gave me a head start. Indeed, "Danny DeVito" is the most-credited form, so that's the common name. How is this significant in any way? Sorry, but you are being dishonest here. No matter which variation I enter into the CLT, it returns the exact same results. There is no way to determin a common name, where the only difference is capitalization, using the CLT. Now, I am willing to believe that you used your own collection to determine the common name, but that isn't what the rules tell us to do now, is it? Bottom line, you are simply playing by your own rules and it is getting harder and harder to take you seriously.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
That would be the logical conclusion, however, that is not what the Rules instruct us to do, and fortunately, in the end it doesn't matter since DVDP will still link them either way.
To ignore a rule because it only refers to credits which are entirely capitalized would be illogical. Sorry, but this statement does not make any sense to me????  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
This variant is not in all caps, so changing some of the letters to lower case is DEFINITELY a personal preference and contrary to the Rules.
Yes that's right, it shows us the preference of the person of whom it belongs to. In a similar manner McCAIN shows us that the name has to be written as McCain in low caps and not as Mccain.
That would be the logical conclusion, however, that is not what the Rules instruct us to do, and fortunately, in the end it doesn't matter since DVDP will still link them either way.
You feel that's not what the rules instruct us to do? Are you honestly saying you would not contribute "JOHN McCAIN" as "John McCain"?! I'm saying the Rules do not tell us to enter 'JOHN McCAIN' as 'John McCain' any more than they tell us to enter 'DANNY DEVITO' as 'Dany DeVito'. I am not talking about what I would do...only about what the Rules actually say. My personal preferences are no more legitimate than yours. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Sorry, but this statement does not make any sense to me???? You said we should theoretically ignore a rule because it only refers to names which are in ALL CAPS. That does not make any sense to me. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
In fact, if we really want to get anal, if the on screen credit is "DANNY DeVITO" we should technically enter it into DVDP as "DANNY DeVITO". The exception listed in the Rules is only for when the name is in ALL CAPS. "DANNY DeVITO" is not in ALL CAPS, so it should be entered strictly by the Rules: exactly as it appears on screen. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Please provide a reference which defines this method as "Standard Capitalization Rules" for people's names.
Unlike others, you won't see me referring to anything outside our own contribution rules - people doing that is the source of almost all problems we have here (remember the whole "a song must have lyrics" debacle?). And it's happening here again: you just said "I would argue that there are no "standard capitalization rules" for people's names period.", and yet you're looking for a definition for that what you feel doesn't exist. I've told you what the single universal approach to de-capitalizing an all-caps credit is: "ABCDEF GHIJKLMNOP" becomes "Abcdef Ghijklmnop". It's not so much my preference, but simply the ONLY method that works accross the board. Again: no additional knowledge required, no documented "real" or "correct" names, no interpretation coloured by anyone's cultural background - just a universal starting point that is exactly the same for everyone. You can't give a reference, but you call it a "single universal approach to de-capitalizing". What is that claim based on other than your own interpretation and personal preference? Since the Rules don't actually define "standard capitalization rules" for people's names, which are different from OTHER standard capitalization Rules, we have no choice but to use an outside source do we? But, of course, you believe your interpretation carries more weight than one cited by Unicus. THAT is the crux of most problems with the database...people who prefer their own preferences to one from an unbiased source. If we were to extend your logic to "standard capitalization rules" for Titles, we'd be changing all of them to capitalize the first letter in every word. BUT, we use an outside reference to define what "standard capitalization rules" for titles are, don't we? It is NOT defined in the Rules! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Sorry, but this statement does not make any sense to me????
You said we should theoretically ignore a rule because it only refers to names which are in ALL CAPS. That does not make any sense to me.
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
In fact, if we really want to get anal, if the on screen credit is "DANNY DeVITO" we should technically enter it into DVDP as "DANNY DeVITO". The exception listed in the Rules is only for when the name is in ALL CAPS. "DANNY DeVITO" is not in ALL CAPS, so it should be entered strictly by the Rules: exactly as it appears on screen. I never said to ignore the Rule. In fact, I said the exact opposite. You are confused.  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
[...]
this an issue that Ken does need to fix so that the local will deal properly with upper and lower case entries.
If Ken "fixes" that, as you ask, DeVito and Devito wouldn't link any longer. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
[...]
this an issue that Ken does need to fix so that the local will deal properly with upper and lower case entries.
If Ken "fixes" that, as you ask, DeVito and Devito wouldn't link any longer. BINGO! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I never said to ignore the Rule. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I did not say you said that. I said that you meant to ignore the rule in theory, which is the opposite of doing it for real. I think you are confused.  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Sorry, but you are being dishonest here. No matter which variation I enter into the CLT, it returns the exact same results. There is no way to determin a common name, where the only difference is capitalization, using the CLT. Now, I am willing to believe that you used your own collection to determine the common name, but that isn't what the rules tell us to do now, is it? Bottom line, you are simply playing by your own rules and it is getting harder and harder to take you seriously. Sorry, but I am never dishonest. Again, this is something I already addressed, but apparently not clearly enough. I'll quote myself: "That is, due to the limitations of the CLT, a bit more work then it usually is". What I meant with that is, that you have to click along the entries manually, one by one, to see the various results. And I did that for a while. Granted, I didn't look at ALL of them - for starters, as I indicated, I already knew the results from the titles I own myself, so after a few quick spot-checks on a few profiles for each of those titles I could skip the rest of them, but I DID take the time to check a fairly large number of his other credits. Again, a nice try to discredit me, but again built on absolutely nothing, and in a thoroughly pointless sub-plot as well. Is it really necessary to make this into a series of (completely unfounded) personal attacks? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think we whole discussion could be summed up in four words: It's a mess.  Even if we agreed on something, there are hundreds and thousands of users out there who would still contribute different devito's! I still mantain Ken should chip in and give us some sort of standardization for mixed case names, either by a statement/rule or by a filter on the Name field in contributions. I personally think a simple XxxYyyy => Xxxyyyy (*) filter would be easier, rather than one more rule to remember and subject to personal interpretations/ignorance anyway, but I trust Ken will come out with the best solution as usual. (*) with the sole exception of the apostrophe: X'Yyyy stays X'Yyyy | | | | -- Enry |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,722 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
I think we whole discussion could be summed up in four words: It's a mess.
Even if we agreed on something, there are hundreds and thousands of users out there who would still contribute different devito's!
I still mantain Ken should chip in and give us some sort of standardization for mixed case names, either by a statement/rule or by a filter on the Name field in contributions. Agreed! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's a madhose, a madhouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hal, you have become so completely irrational and argumentative that i am very close to blocking your forum posts. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
It's a madhose, a madhouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hal, you have become so completely irrational and argumentative that i am very close to blocking your forum posts.
Skip Please feel free. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You don't understand, hal, Tthat is something that I want to do. But at the same time you have become so argumentative and just downright nasty most of the time...come on man lighten up.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Where exactly have I been "nasty"?
Exactly which of my arguments are "irrational"?
Just because you don't agree with them does not mean they are either "nasty" or "irrational".
If you are going to make these type of statements, you should be prepared to substantiate them. | | | | Hal |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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