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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Creature Designer credit...what is it for? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | At the risk of getting another 'it's not allowed because the credit doesn't say...' post, I have to ask the rest of you what you think.
What are we using 'Creature Designer credit for? Three examples that have come up recently:
Special Creature Effects Created by
Special Terminator Effects Created by
Live Action Dinosaurs by
All three were contributed as 'Visual Effects', which I don't believe is correct. In all three cases, the person designed and built the associated 'creatures'. To me, that means they were creature designers. If I am alone in this thinking, I will keep that data local and adjust my voting, but I wanted to test the waters first. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | To me they sound like functional equivalents of the Creature Designer credit. The word "Effects" in the first two examples may lead to confusion, however. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
At the risk of getting another 'it's not allowed because the credit doesn't say...' post, I have to ask the rest of you what you think.
What are we using 'Creature Designer credit for? Three examples that have come up recently:
Special Creature Effects Created by
Special Terminator Effects Created by
Live Action Dinosaurs by
All three were contributed as 'Visual Effects', which I don't believe is correct. In all three cases, the person designed and built the associated 'creatures'. To me, that means they were creature designers. If I am alone in this thinking, I will keep that data local and adjust my voting, but I wanted to test the waters first. I have mixed feelings here, unicus. I suspect, however, that Ken's intent would support including them. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
I have mixed feelings here, unicus. I suspect, however, that Ken's intent would support including them. I agree, which is why I started this thread. I just want to know which direction the wind is blowing. As always, assuming I end up in the minority, I am happy to keep my deviation local. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: October 6, 2008 | | Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | Neither "Special Creature Effects Created by" nor "Special Terminator Effects Created by" tells me that the credit is for the design or creation of the creature in question. Special effects could be different things. I would credit these as Visual Effects.
"Live Action Dinosaurs by" I'd agree is Creature Designer. | | | | Last edited: by CalebAndCo |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Rules : "If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. " (bold are part of the rules)
Clear, no ???
Local "other" role is made for things like Special Creature Effects Created by, Special Terminator Effects Created by, or Live Action Dinosaurs by, that are not listed in the rules. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: October 6, 2008 | | Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Rules : "If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. " (bold are part of the rules)
Clear, no ???
Local "other" role is made for things like Special Creature Effects Created by, Special Terminator Effects Created by, or Live Action Dinosaurs by, that are not listed in the rules. "Live Action Dinosaurs" is not contributable in accordance with the letter of the law: True. But the other two are Special Effects credits which, I believe, should be contributable. That in each case there is an additional word to tell what phase of Special Effects the person worked on, does not change the fact to my understanding, any more than it would for a credit like: "Ms. Bacall's Gowns by...". |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm the one who contributed a few of these.
As I stated in my notes he is credited with Special Terminator Effects created by. The key words here is 'Special, Effects'. This, to me, means a Visual Effects credit.
No where in the credit does it have 'Creature or Designer'. Going by that he can't be credited with a Creature Designer credit.
If he was credited as "Terminator Designed by" I would have credited him with a Creature Designer. But he isn't, so going by the rules he can't be contributed with a Creature Designer credit.
Now if the rules were re-written with examples allowed then I would be fine with crediting him with a Creature Designer credit for his Terminator work. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CalebAndCo: Quote:
But the other two are Special Effects credits which, I believe, should be contributable. That in each case there is an additional word to tell what phase of Special Effects the person worked on, does not change the fact to my understanding, any more than it would for a credit like: "Ms. Bacall's Gowns by...". I'm sorry to disagree, but the rules are very precise. And, for example, Producer is correct, but Co-Producer, andr Associate Producer are forbidden (those examples are not mine, they come from rules). So, only one word more makes the role different and it must not be contributed. Rules cannot be interpreted, or we'll have a mess in the online database, which is so helpful for so much people... | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
I'm the one who contributed a few of these.
Be sure that my opinion is not directed against you. But some of us here cannot explain that rules cannot be interpreted about typos in overviews, for example, and parsing correctly asian names, and can be interpreted for other points, as crew roles. The problem is that, when somebody opens this type of debate with a new thread, the answer cannot be else than "rules are rules". I think rules may be changed, but those changes must be requested, for example through this forum or through feature request forum. And until Ken has changed something, what is written is the law for online. And note that in this case, local databases can be managed very easily, which is not the case for other requests. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: October 6, 2008 | | Posts: 1,932 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting CalebAndCo:
Quote:
But the other two are Special Effects credits which, I believe, should be contributable. That in each case there is an additional word to tell what phase of Special Effects the person worked on, does not change the fact to my understanding, any more than it would for a credit like: "Ms. Bacall's Gowns by...".
I'm sorry to disagree, but the rules are very precise. And, for example, Producer is correct, but Co-Producer, andr Associate Producer are forbidden (those examples are not mine, they come from rules). So, only one word more makes the role different and it must not be contributed.
Rules cannot be interpreted, or we'll have a mess in the online database, which is so helpful for so much people... I don't agree that "all words are created equal" in a case like this. Would you really not accept my hypothetical Gowns credit as Costume Designer? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, of course the Gowns credit works, because the table says it's OK. The unfortunate thing is that Ken left the Creature Designer box for acceptable equivalents blank. This says to me that either a) there are no equivalents, or, more likely, b) there are such a wide array of possibilities that including a list would be a fool's errand.
OTOH, I'm not sure "created by" and "designed by" are necessarily the same thing in the effects realm, but maybe someone more knowledgeable on this point can chime in. I guess so far as Ray Harryhausen and his ilk are concerned, they're the same thing but I'm not convinced these one-man animation shops of the past have any equivalent in modern CGI extravaganzas. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
What are we using 'Creature Designer credit for? Three examples that have come up recently:
Special Creature Effects Created by
Special Terminator Effects Created by
Live Action Dinosaurs by
Live Dinosaurs seems most obvious: Creature Design The others may crossover: Terminator Effects: T1: how much of the effects were CGI and how much "live". I don't know. T2: i suspect it is much more a visual than a live effect. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CalebAndCo: Quote:
Neither "Special Creature Effects Created by" nor "Special Terminator Effects Created by" tells me that the credit is for the design or creation of the creature in question. Special effects could be different things. I would credit these as Visual Effects.
"Live Action Dinosaurs by" I'd agree is Creature Designer. I agree with the above. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Rules : "If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. " (bold are part of the rules)
Clear, no ???
Local "other" role is made for things like Special Creature Effects Created by, Special Terminator Effects Created by, or Live Action Dinosaurs by, that are not listed in the rules. it's obvious that a definitive list of what are creatures are not included is because it could be so many. The intent was to credit the designer of any creatures used. And that is how the rule should be used as guidance. "Live action dinosaurs by" - a dinosaur is a creature. Therefore this is a creature designer credit | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Live Dinosaurs seems most obvious: Creature Design
The others may crossover:
Terminator Effects: T1: how much of the effects were CGI and how much "live". I don't know. T2: i suspect it is much more a visual than a live effect. Well, let's get into specifics then. As was pointed out in the notes for the Terminator contribution, Stan Winston talks about creating full sized puppets of the Terminator. Cubby believes that equates to Special Effect, I disagree because it was an actual 'thing'...not CGI. Again, we asked for this credit so that we could give people like Stan Winston proper credit. As his website indicates, he is not a special effects person...he is character, creature and monster creator. JMHO. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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