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Quoting MakoDeth:

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I'm not particularily into puppeteers but since I ran into some profiles listing them I'm not all too happy with the contribution rule regarding them. It says to list them only if they are mentioned directly connected to the cast credits

It doesn't.

Quoting Unicus69:

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Actually, he is correct.  From the rules:

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For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film.
(...)
If puppeteers are included in the end credits include them and append (puppeteer) at the end of the role.

As you can see, the rules define 'end credits' as the cast list, not the entire end credit crawl.  Puppeteers can only be entered when they are part of the cast list.  If they are further down in the crew section, they can not be entered.

The definition of 'end credits' only refers to actors.

.

Quoting Unicus69:

Quote:
Actually, he is correct.  From the rules:

Quote:
For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film.
(...)
If puppeteers are included in the end credits include them and append (puppeteer) at the end of the role.

As you can see, the rules define 'end credits' as the cast list, not the entire end credit crawl.  Puppeteers can only be entered when they are part of the cast list.  If they are further down in the crew section, they can not be entered.

Ahh, it's always good to read the whole section! 

Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting bbbbb:

Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:

Quote:
Actually, he is correct.  From the rules:

Quote:
For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film.
(...)
If puppeteers are included in the end credits include them and append (puppeteer) at the end of the role.

As you can see, the rules define 'end credits' as the cast list, not the entire end credit crawl.  Puppeteers can only be entered when they are part of the cast list.  If they are further down in the crew section, they can not be entered.

The definition of 'end credits' only refers to actors.

Well since puppeteers are not listed as crew People for Profiler purposes...Actors would be correct and they are part of the cast list or they are not. If they are not part of the cast list, meaning they are listed somewhere outside of the cast, then they are NOT listed.

Skip

Skip

Which is strange of course. We should decide to always include them (as well as Stunts, dancers etc.) or never. I've recently done a Dutch profile for Heartbreak Kid and it included a lot of stunt people in between two cast lists so according to the rules i had to add them but the same stunt people working on atoher movies, credited with a space between them and the cast are NOT listed.

A strange situation which i think should be cleared up.

Paul

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting bbbbb:

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The definition of 'end credits' only refers to actors.

I am sorry, but no.

Please do not apologize, Sir, I'm not used to polite manners.

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The rule is telling us which part of the credits we are to take cast information from...the area where all credited actors are listed together in a single section.  This is done to distinguish between the cast list and the rest of the credits...which would be crew.

Anybody listed in that section gets entered into the cast section of profiler.  If puppeteers are included in that area, we enter them.  If they aren't, we don't.

What the rule is telling us, is that puppeteers, actual crew, have to be filed under cast, although not being actors. For not being actors, the regarding restrictive definition of the 'end credits', in distinction from the end credits, does not apply.

Else we would file puppeteers sometimes under cast, sometimes under crew, and sometimes even under cast and crew.

Love, bbbbb

I agree with Paul on this.

By doing it this way the links between profiles for puppeteers, dancers and etc are incomplete and in my opinion incomplete equals error filled data.

Either we include them all the time regardless of their location in the credits which would then properly link them to all of their work. Or we treat them strictly as crew, and unless that category is added to the crew we wouldn't include them except for local.

Or we don't include them in either cast or crew at all. Well except local if wished.