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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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Did $400 million decide the format HD war? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | GlobeandMail.com is running a story that it may have cost Sony $400 million to convince Warner that Blu-ray is the better HD format. The website says analysts are throwing around this number, but no one knows how big of a push it really was. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 |  Posts: 57 |
| | Posted: | | | | When is it ever not about money? |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,918 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since the war is over, does it even really matter? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would say yes it does matter, Doc. Toshiba had a "Technologically inferior" product in HDDVD, but that is arguable since NEITHER format had taken any steps to test the limits of their capabilities. What Toshiba did have was a STANDARD and functional system use Combo sets to drive the consumers, they could buy the Combo sets and play then right now WITHOUT having to go out and buy a new piece of hardware, but when they chose to buy the hardware their product was ready to go. As to the Standard and its importance, I have NEVER heard of a report of a Particular title not playing on a given deck. This is problem which continues to dog BD becuase they have no standards, that all must follow, all features on ever deck or disc are completely chosen by the given vendor, hence you have a mess. If you recall originally Sony did not want to even make the BD decks backwards compatible. BD has won the war of retailer acceptance, they are NOT even close to winning the war of Consumer acceptance, though they spin it as if they had...they have not.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I would say yes it does matter, Doc. Toshiba had a "Technologically inferior" product in HDDVD, but that is arguable since NEITHER format had taken any steps to test the limits of their capabilities. What Toshiba did have was a STANDARD and functional system use Combo sets to drive the consumers, they could buy the Combo sets and play then right now WITHOUT having to go out and buy a new piece of hardware, but when they chose to buy the hardware their product was ready to go. As to the Standard and its importance, I have NEVER heard of a report of a Particular title not playing on a given deck. This is problem which continues to dog BD becuase they have no standards, that all must follow, all features on ever deck or disc are completely chosen by the given vendor, hence you have a mess. If you recall originally Sony did not want to even make the BD decks backwards compatible. BD has won the war of retailer acceptance, they are NOT even close to winning the war of Consumer acceptance, though they spin it as if they had...they have not.
Skip HUH!?!?! That makes no sense. You mean, you never saw all those people moan that the combo discs sucked, that they had issues? Did you really do any research before this post? Read some of the threads in this forum alone. Blu-ray doesn't have a "standard"... I don't know what to say to that. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... | | | | Last edited: by NewEnglander |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,918 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
BD has won the war of retailer acceptance, they are NOT even close to winning the war of Consumer acceptance, though they spin it as if they had...they have not. If the consumer can't get a product because the retailers no longer produces/sells it, consumer acceptance is moot. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It also does not mean that the victor is the winner, Doc. They could both wind up being losers, based on Sony's track record I am loath to declare them the winner, history does not support that view. They have to got to overcome one very simple fact the consumer is very happy with DVD and have not yet been shown a reason to switch. There are issues which will probably keep DVD alive for many years, Sony's bi problem now...is how close is 4K. The recent Blade Runner release was the first film set to have been re-mastered in 4K. Based on my information I think 4K is 5 to 10 years out, certainly no reason for me to get excited about BD.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 |  Posts: 240 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pplchamp: Quote:
HUH!?!?!
That makes no sense. You mean, you never saw all those people moan that the combo discs sucked, that they had issues? Did you really do any research before this post? Read some of the threads in this forum alone.
Blu-ray doesn't have a "standard"... I don't know what to say to that. HD DVD had a standard, they were all Toshiba. Even the 3 models sold by other companies were Toshiba with bits stuck on. Had HD DVD "won" they would be in the same boat once other companies started building their own players. DVD was the same. Seamless branching didn't work on half the early players, and did you ever see a disc with wide screen and pan and scan on the same disc (not a flippy)? It's part of the standard but it didn't work, but the option is still in DVD player menus. 4K is going to kill Blu Ray? You have an original one there Skip  Most of the HD DVD fan boys seem to be split between 5 GB low bit rate downloads, or China HD DVD will come to the US and save them. | | | | Tom. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | tas:
I am not a fan-boy of either format. HD has its own issues as well.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tas314: Quote:
HD DVD had a standard, they were all Toshiba. Even the 3 models sold by other companies were Toshiba with bits stuck on. Had HD DVD "won" they would be in the same boat once other companies started building their own players. The way Toshiba was pricing their players, there's a reason no one else was making HD DVD players. There was no money to be made. |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 | | Posts: 240 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
tas:
I am not a fan-boy of either format. HD has its own issues as well.
Skip I'm not saying your an HD DVD fan-boy, just that now that all of them are past the "it's not dead, probably pining for the fjords" stage they have moved onto "if HD DVD is dead, then Blu is dead too". They have come up with a lot of reasons why Blu Ray is dead (often silly) but I have not seen anyone bring up 4K, so you win for coming up with a new reason why Blu is dead...  | | | | Tom. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | The funny thing that i find about 4K tas, which if you haven't had the opportunity see it sometime, it will knock your socks off. Some issues relative film and HD(which ever format) will be magnified even more. $K will be a great format for films of the last, oh say, 20 years and perhaps for some of the quality technicolor restorations such as GWTW, El Cid and My Fair Lady. For many of the Eastmancolor prints, I do not forsee much of future for 4K, unless the Studios are really going to get into some major restoration work and change to new stock, the few Eastmancolor films i have seen in HD have displayed all the failings of the eastmancolor process including grain, to the point of distraction. I also don't think any HD format will do much for "Classic" animation. just not enough color palette in those old hand drawn cells, but we will see what Disney can do with Sleeping Beauty this fall..I am looking forward to it. I am also not sure that HD in any form will be of much help for older TV Series, but that we have to wait and see on, there is a rumor that Route 66 is being eyed for Hi-Def release...why Route 66?....your guess is as good as mine.<shrugs>
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 | | Posts: 240 |
| | Posted: | | | | Theatrical animation looks ok on HD, it's the newer TV animation that is a real problem.
Shot on 16mm silent animation stock, YECK.
Shot on film but edited on video. Very expensive to go back to the original film elements, if they still have them...
Digital paint at 640x480 bitmap. Your toast.
Some live action shows that were shot on film, but edited on video are a problem, and shows that were shot direct to video tape are toast. | | | | Tom. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting FLighT: Quote:
When is it ever not about money? Yes. Sony knows no end to greed and market control at any cost. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I would say yes it does matter, Doc. Toshiba had a "Technologically inferior" product in HDDVD, but that is arguable since NEITHER format had taken any steps to test the limits of their capabilities. What Toshiba did have was a STANDARD and functional system use Combo sets to drive the consumers, they could buy the Combo sets and play then right now WITHOUT having to go out and buy a new piece of hardware, but when they chose to buy the hardware their product was ready to go. As to the Standard and its importance, I have NEVER heard of a report of a Particular title not playing on a given deck. This is problem which continues to dog BD becuase they have no standards, that all must follow, all features on ever deck or disc are completely chosen by the given vendor, hence you have a mess. If you recall originally Sony did not want to even make the BD decks backwards compatible. BD has won the war of retailer acceptance, they are NOT even close to winning the war of Consumer acceptance, though they spin it as if they had...they have not.
Skip Exactly so. It's very likely that new Sony BD players will have less, not more features, and the price will remain extremely high. After all, the SONY bean counters want all of that $400 back and much much more. |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Posts: 57 |
| | Posted: | | | | Exactly so. It's very likely that new Sony BD players will have less, not more features, and the price will remain extremely high. After all, the SONY bean counters want all of that $400 back and much much more.
And all the more reason not to let go of the standard DVD's I already own. I hope to see the hardware end of the playback chain get more sophisticated and generate better up converting at lower cost. Hi-Def may eventually make a solid replacement if Walmart, et al, can make a market, otherwise, I suspect Blu-ray may end up like Laserdisc, a phenomenon, not a market force. |
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